65 replies to this topic

[FlipOver]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

I'm not talking about realism at all. I'm saying "screw realism, let's fix game balance first"

Running a crazy chicken at 150 kph into a 100 ton Atlas or, better yet, a cliff, should hurt. But in this game, it doesn't. We're just so used to it, we don't think about it, but it requires far more suspension of belief than light mechs not taking much damage when jumping off cliffs. The legs can actually absorb some of the impact from hitting the ground. The nose cannot.

I agree, that's why I first typed:

FlipOver, on 08 July 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

I like the new fall damage thing.
Usually I pilot a RVN when dropping solo or 2-3 man groups (which is almost 90% of my drops).

Being careful about the speed when going down slope is just another thing light need to pay attention. No big deal, really.

For a while now, ights were running and jumping around brawlers and getting away "scot free" most of the time.

Due to their special specs (small size + high speed + low ping + small hitboxes + dodgy hit registration) - choose any 3 of those 5 - most light pilots thought it would be a good idea to play a light like if they were piloting an assault with speed + JJs.

Even if the RVN is one of the lights with the biggest hitboxes on the legs, this new feature really didn't change much on the game play for a real scout / harasser who needs to be silent, sneaky and smart.

Sure the fall damage is something new to take into account, but I even think we all should get collision damage with the scenery and the faster you hit something, the harder the ding on your 'mechs armor.

Let's just adapt to the new mechanic and learn from it, I know I'm doing just that and enjoying the game a bit more.

So again, the game is flawed, but adding a new feature to improve it, isn't really a bad thing, people just need to adapt and wait for further improvements (aka collision damage depending on armor/speed/objects).

[Wrenchfarm]

I Zeratul I, on 07 July 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

I walked down a tiny hilll in a warhawk.

Health dropped from 100% to 97%.

Normally, I think my legs would've taken 0.5% to 1%.

In other words, fall damage for non jump jet mechs might have tripled, while fall damage for jump jet equipped mechs stayed the same.

There's no "adapting" or avoiding the new fall damage without taking long unnecessary detours around sheer drops.

Having to take detours to avoid sheer drops further handicaps the mobility of non jump jet equipped mechs and gives jump snipers and jump brawlers a bigger advantage than they had pre patch release.

Jump jet equipped mechs are now the only mechs that can navigate sheer drops without incurring the additional leg damage penalties provided by the new patch.

In other words -- the patch was intended to nerf jump jets but instead nerfed mechs without jump jets.

Clarify. Explain to me how some of you claim to be "adapting" to those circumstances.

You're not making much sense.

.

None of the defenders in this thread dares respond to this post because they know it's true.

Seriously, pop-tart players must be laughing their ass off. The strong just got stronger, meanwhile the Atlas now has to waddle an extra 1:30 out of way and be even later to the party than usual so he can avoid exploding knees on several maps.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Fall damage is insane for mediums, haven't been playing heavies and assaults lately.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I haven't really noticed it as being a big deal personally.

[FlipOver]

Wrenchfarm, on 08 July 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

None of the defenders in this thread dares respond to this post because they know it's true.

Seriously, pop-tart players must be laughing their ass off. The strong just got stronger, meanwhile the Atlas now has to waddle an extra 1:30 out of way and be even later to the party than usual so he can avoid exploding knees on several maps.

Missed that post (and many others) but all I can say is the number of jump-snipers has decreased drastically.

Looking for jump-snipers.... Found one.... two.... and that's it.

Most probably because they get their legs damaged too much to keep on jumping.

But do me (and others) a favor... keep on jump-sniping, all I need to do is give it a bit of time and them go and clip the legs off with much more ease than in the past.

[WarHippy]

I have never been a jump sniper, but I do enjoy jumping around the battlefield on a few of my mechs and I seem to be taking a lot of damage even when I feather my landings. It just doesn't feel right in particular on my poor Summoner.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I love it, I watch guys land hard a few times and know to shoot their legs.
Haven't had legs blow out once on me, I watched a legged mech jump and smash land and explode his cored red leg...was hilarious.

Landing hasn't been bad, save half the fuel and just hold the damn JJ key down down, don't be tapping it. get -29ft/s

I'm assuming these "feathering" with damage landings are people rapid tapping the JJ key rather than holding it.

Edited by shad0w4life, 08 July 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

As much as I hate the fall damage scaling, I agree with this. It's not a terrible idea. It's just a matter of tweaking fall damage along with the jump jet effectiveness.

• Punishing heavy and assault mechs for jumping off cliffs without jump jets will add another tactical element to the game.
  
• Making the light mechs take very little damage from falling will restore a smidgen of viability to light mechs without jump jets , and will also increase viability of light mechs with jump jets.
  
• Lots of fall damage for heavier classes and very little fall damage for lighter classes, means that lighter mechs can go just about everywhere, but heavier mechs will have limited mobility.
  
• Widening the gap between 1 and 6 jump jets will improve the situation, as 1 jump jet should be enough to break the fall when jumping off cliffs, but not enough to climb hills.
  
• 4 jump jets should be enough to choose between a really high jump with no breaking (and thus, lots of leg damage) or a short jump with breaking.
  
• 6 jump jets should give really high jumps with breaking, but the weight of the jump jets will rob you of a lot of firepower.

I would take fall damage over all the other attempted solutions to poptarting, any day of the week. With the right tweaking, this alone may be enough to deal with poptarts, even without the reticule shake and the forward drift. Especially if hard falls leads to knock-down, leaving your mech incapacitated a few seconds if you make a bad jump (e.g. falling 200 feet without breaking the fall).



However... I'm not holding my breath.


Definitely made it worse. If it had punished heavies and assaults more than lights, it would have made things better. But right now, moderate leg damage (orange armor after a few jumps) is not a problem for light mechs, because they rarely die from being legged anyway. It's a HUGE problem for light mechs, which die from being legged very often indeed. Especially Ravens.

By punishing all mechs equally, it punished the light mechs more.

Lights need to take no damage from base running, and less for short falls, but no, if Heavies get punished for jumping off Candy Mountain, Lights need to, also.

[Ghogiel]

It's a bit borked in practice.

Even on JJing mechs. ~Particularly lights. In that even though you can save half the JJ juice, then on your way down pump JJ when you are like 3m off the ground and seemingly nearly stop or come to a crawl landing, the ft p/sec descending rate just doesn't seem to respond very well to try using air breaks and half the time you still end up hitting the dirt at 40+ ft p/sec and take fall damage. It just mounts up.

[Alistair Winter]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Lights need to take no damage from base running, and less for short falls, but no, if Heavies get punished for jumping off Candy Mountain, Lights need to, also.

I'm not saying that lights should survive a jump from any altitude. But several maps have cliffs and platforms where I would like to see light mechs able to jump off without crippling themselves, but where I think it would be better for gameplay if heavy and assault mechs were forced to make a choice between walking around or taking serious damage.

Anyway, this is all academic. PGI gonna PGI, no matter what my view is.

[ztac]

I really don't think the patch was intended to stop jump snipers , but punish people for trying to escape lines of fire by jumping over cliffs or off the side of hills/bridges etc.etc. (you get the idea).

Any competent jump sniper can easily make sure they get 0 damage. The fall damage affects every one except them to be honest, which makes you wonder why PGI would do it?

A mech with JJ should certainly have less problems with fall damage than one without.

Easiest method of nerfing JJ mech is to disable all weapons unless your feet are touching the ground!

[DjPush]

I love it. It makes you think more when you play. I like games that evolve and force you to develope new tactics. If I wanted to play a game that never changed, I would go play COD. The only reason this is an issue is because the people that relied so heavily on a single tactic are being forced to come up with new ones. They refuse to evolve with the game and are upset because easy mode is not so easy any more.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 08 July 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

I'm not saying that lights should survive a jump from any altitude. But several maps have cliffs and platforms where I would like to see light mechs able to jump off without crippling themselves, but where I think it would be better for gameplay if heavy and assault mechs were forced to make a choice between walking around or taking serious damage.

Anyway, this is all academic. PGI gonna PGI, no matter what my view is.

well, I can agree with that. Though I do think the 2% damage from jumping the 25+ meters from the parking garage is no ttoo horrible, but that HEavies and Assaults, should indeed take a more noticeable amount of impact, even at that height, than Lights, which are not only designed for the bumps and falls and suspension issues of higher speed, but also have considerably less mass causing shear forces than the heavier units.

If I understand fall damage correctly (and I don't really think I do, just TBH) I do approve that it is apparently increased based off the IS, or in other words, scales within the weight classes itself? Which is a nice touch, if so.

The part people will hate me more for, is where I think a Jumper should still take marginally less damage from a fall than a non jumper, un cushioned, simply because their legs were specifically reinforced and designed for the impacts of jumping.

BUT, people already feel jumpers are "too good", so that would cause yet another peoples revolt, I am sure.

[DONTOR]

I think its alot of fun having the additonal leg damage and jump sniping. I jump, dont see a target at lower levels and have to decide if its worth it to jump full distance and land hard, possibly to get a final shot or something. Also when my legs to get open and damaged I have to be really careful about my jump height and JJ feul, its pretty neat I think. ( I am using shock absorbance on my summoner however, and max leg armor) Havent legged myself yet but I have taken quite a bit of damamge that could have lead to legging.

I do feel bad for non JJ mechs also.

[Why Run]

It's hardly noticeable. It makes you think about where you walk. Perhaps they will increase the whole scale, but fall damage is a must in this game. The problem is this was implemented without collision damage, so if you added collision later, without adjusting fall damage, flying into a wall, or falling down a slope into something would be catastrophic, which I do not think was intended. However, this shouldn't be bumper cars with guns, there has to be a price paid for poor mech handling.

[Bishop Steiner]

DONTOR, on 08 July 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think its alot of fun having the additonal leg damage and jump sniping. I jump, dont see a target at lower levels and have to decide if its worth it to jump full distance and land hard, possibly to get a final shot or something. Also when my legs to get open and damaged I have to be really careful about my jump height and JJ feul, its pretty neat I think. ( I am using shock absorbance on my summoner however, and max leg armor) Havent legged myself yet but I have taken quite a bit of damamge that could have lead to legging.

I do feel bad for non JJ mechs also.

I agree with ST Jobe, in at least the damage needs consistency, and a slight reduction for the Lights, though I still see some folks seem to cope pretty good, but it is kinda nuts if you run the same ramp ok 2 out of 3 times no problem, but the 3rd time take damage.

Of course, if we had surface skid modifiers, destructible terrain like we have been asking for (bomb craters and potholes!) and such, just imagine how much people would have to think and change tactics.

OUCH!

[Dano_man]

I don't mind the mechanic for Jumpjetting, but geez to take damage while running in a light because you hit basically a pothole...dang my truck does better than that.

This needs to be tweaked, not the JJ, just the amount of damage you take for running your mech over uneven ground.

[MechWarrior5152251]

In MW2 your jj regenerated while you were in the air. That gave you that little bit of thrust to feather your fall. Not so in MWO:(

It does pretty seriously hurt jump snipers because even minor falls do major leg damage, but it hurts non jumpers even more since they have no way to cushion their falls.

Edited by 911 Inside Job, 08 July 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Apnu]

Wrenchfarm, on 08 July 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

None of the defenders in this thread dares respond to this post because they know it's true.

Seriously, pop-tart players must be laughing their ass off. The strong just got stronger, meanwhile the Atlas now has to waddle an extra 1:30 out of way and be even later to the party than usual so he can avoid exploding knees on several maps.

I think this says more about map bugs than anything else. People aren't going to comment on that because what is there to say? Not much. But we have to play the maps we have, so adapt and over come. Dropping off cliffs and whatnot is still viable, the pilot has to weigh the risks for the rewards. If there's a slope or map bug, I avoid it. I take a different path. Sometimes that works, sometimes it don't. Everything can be adapted to, even map bugs or unintended consequences from PGI.

I'm not a high Elo player, but I have seen less pop-tarts now than before. I'm not sure if that's because of all the new shiny clan mechs w/out JJs people are taking, or if its the falling damage changes. Either way, I'm happy with less poptarts. In 12v12 matches, I see about the same number of poptarts. So who knows if the changes are affecting poptarts as intended or not.

[Winterfeld]

Havent touched my Spider/Jenner since then. Tried it. Even bought the SAM and that dosnt come cheap. Cant play with it. My Raven works better with the SAM, but still gots damage at the legs when I have to escape in tight situations. SAM works fine with the Centurion & Shadowhawk but lights are ... well nm.