94 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Deathlike, on 13 July 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Does anyone realize the math behind LRM min range is exponential?

For instance, 90m = 50% distance (of 180m) -> .5 "squared" = .25 (25% of normal damage)
120m = 66% distance ->.66 "squared" = .44 (44% of normal damage)
135m = 75% distance -> .75 "squared" = .56 (56% of normal damage)
144m = 80% distance -> .8 "squared" = .64 (64% of normal damage)
162m = 90% distance -> .9 "squared" = .81 (81% of normal damage)

In essence, if your target is JUST crossing the 180m threshold, you'll be doing reasonable amounts of damage. Once they REALLY close on you, you're doing squat for damage.

That does not help their case.

[headbasher]

So whats the Lore reason clans have this and IS doesnt? I cant think of a good reason why they would be different .

[FupDup]

headbasher, on 13 July 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

So whats the Lore reason clans have this and IS doesnt? I can't think of a good reason why they would be different .

Because FASA said so, basically. Probably something to do with the tracking system used by each faction.

[wanderer]

Clantech LRMs were built better, period- that is, they could clear the launchers and fire accurately regardless of range, while older-tech IS LRMS "lobbed" in a ballistic arc that made direct fire under 180m increasingly inaccurate.

MWO represents this by giving them a "dead zone" for damage instead.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Just saying.

You guys think LRM spam is bad now, lol you just wait.

Going to be pretty funny after the next patch, when a LRM20 is effectively a SRM6 WITH GUIDANCE at 90 meters..

If anyone else is bothered by this, please speak up..

LRM is going to have a lot more weight and heat than a SRM.

Also remember he was talking about an exponential curve, not a linear one. This means at 50m, an LRM20 might be doing 2 damage, at 90m 5 damage, 120m 10 damage, 150m 18 damage and finally at 180m full damage.

So yeah, I doubt people will be replacing their SRMs with them though if you are an LRM fan, it might be nice to have the ability to do at least a few points of damage with them at all ranges in those "Oh Crap" moments.

headbasher, on 13 July 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

So whats the Lore reason clans have this and IS doesnt? I cant think of a good reason why they would be different .

If your going to Lore, basically like all other clan weapons, they have better arming and guidance technology which allows them to lock and fire at point blank rather than requiring 180m to arm.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Still not seeing the bigger picture here hmm?

What about lights and mediums?

Its their role pretty much to rush and harass the LRM boats, that is what kept the balance in check..

You move fast, and try to close that 180 meter distance quickly to get inside minimum range to do your job.

I watched many times as assaults had 0 problem tracking and keeping a fast light in their sights, even a Locust doing 150 can barely out circle a Warhawk that knows he's there.

Stuff like this just further crushes the ability of non ECM mechs to do their intended role.

There is a reason that the 180 meter safety zone was put into the original game, you might have heard of this, its called balance and at the very least, marginal risk to have a weapon that can deal high damage with very little effort over vast ranges.

And there is a difference between making changes that follow Clan Lore, and making changes that screw up gameplay at the cost of balance.

Edited by Mister D, 13 July 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[headbasher]

Viktor Drake, on 13 July 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

LRM is going to have a lot more weight and heat than a SRM.

Also remember he was talking about an exponential curve, not a linear one. This means at 50m, an LRM20 might be doing 2 damage, at 90m 5 damage, 120m 10 damage, 150m 18 damage and finally at 180m full damage.

So yeah, I doubt people will be replacing their SRMs with them though if you are an LRM fan, it might be nice to have the ability to do at least a few points of damage with them at all ranges in those "Oh Crap" moments.



If your going to Lore, basically like all other clan weapons, they have better arming and guidance technology which allows them to lock and fire at point blank rather than requiring 180m to arm.

ok what if clan kept the lock on guidance part and gave IS Dumb fire up to 180m then they would "turn on" ? That seems pretty fair compromise

Edited by headbasher, 13 July 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[falknir]

Koniving, on 13 July 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

If nothing else, remove the blur.

It was this bad in the past.


That was being hit by a streak SRM-2.

It's currently MUCH worse and it NEEDS to go. My frame rate cuts down at every occurrence while recording and I'm using a medium-high end system with a quad core processor, decent video card and 16 gigabytes of RAM. I'd hate to hear what happens to low end computers.

(On this same aspect, this past quote comes to mind on the subject of LRMs being overpowered.)

Yep, got a good computer, it's not the performance impact that bothers me. It is the insane amounts of artificial motion blur and screen-shack for those on the receiving end of missile impacts that is really growing annoying. It will be an annoying train-wreck for those on the receiving end of ECM and Clan LRM suppression-fire at short-range with the upcoming update.

[Macksheen]

I would be very happy to see IS SRMs go to deadfire damage.

I'd also be ok w/ mucking w/ cooldown times on launchers, but I'd be just as keen to see their freaking shake reduced. There's a pont about lore and a point about actual PC-game-playability. The spamminess of it isn't just about damage - it's about freaking screenshake too (really, mech-shake, as you can't aim well either).

[Cyborne Elemental]

Look at weapon nerfs like they did to the AC-2, they added in Ghost heat multiplier if you ever staggerfire them because it was considered a greifing tool, and then nerfed them considerably for 6 patches in a row.

Clan LRM's are far more of a greifing tool than the AC-2 dakka ever was.

[Sorbic]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Enhanced Gyro's work pretty well against any screenshake.

Some mechs only have 1 module slot until mastered. Even then having 1 of 2 slots devoted to combating silly amounts of screen shake from one weapon is far from sensible.

[Wolfways]

Mister D, on 13 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

*snip* a weapon that can deal high damage with very little effort over vast ranges.

I thought this thread was about LRM's...a low damage medium range weapon.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Clan LRM's are high damage.

The IS launchers only land about 95% on average of their missles vs a non-AMS target with clear LOS.

Launch a IS-LRM10 and still only about 9 Missles at best will hit, and they're shotgunned everywhere on the body vs a target the size of any IS heavy.
Launch a IS-LRM15 and still 1-3 missles will completely miss their target, and thats with full LOS.
With IS Artemis, that number of misses goes down, but just barely as its still shotgunning and giving around 40-50% CT hits.

Clan Missles have an almost guaranteed 100% hitrate against a similar target with no AMS, and those hits are almost 65% CT.
Put Artemis on Clan missles and its up to the 75% range for doing CT cores.

Now I do understand that both IS and Clan launchers keep their spread patterns regardless of their target, so lights still get nailed easily much more with Clan missles because of their base accuracy cone.

Biggest problem is, there are some balance tradeoffs legitimately available to the IS such as Hotloads that aren't being made available to IS pilots, while clan tech is getting all its perks.

IS is getting the shaft hardcore.

Edited by Mister D, 14 July 2014 - 04:22 AM.

[Livewyr]

Mr D.

Your argument is not helped by hyperbolic statements. I have tested C-LRMs at 183 meters.. it is a shotgun blast too, with some entirely missing, even on larger mechs. (like AWS)

[Denolven]

Koniving, on 13 July 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

My frame rate cuts down at every occurrence while recording and I'm using a medium-high end system with a quad core processor, decent video card and 16 gigabytes of RAM. I'd hate to hear what happens to low end computers.

25 fps on lowest settings (20 on Forzen City, goes down to 12 depending on situation), that's what happens. I played with 35-45 before the new UI hit us. Considering that pretty much every other MMO runs smoothly on lowest settings, I won't add the cost of another PC to the sum I already spent on MWO. If they don't want me to play, I won't
I could live with it if a high end machine would give good results, but what I hear from friends, even with really good racks they don't get past 60 fps.
Then again, PGI has other problems than the graphics of the game...

Edited by Denolven, 14 July 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Why Run]

It is going to be funny when the 30-40ish percent-hit-rate-lrms do 25% damage at 90m... yeah... real powerful... SO MANY WHINERS

Mister D, on 14 July 2014 - 02:02 AM, said:

Clan LRM's are high damage.

The IS launchers only land about 95% on average of their missles vs a non-AMS target with clear LOS.

Launch a IS-LRM10 and still only about 9 Missles at best will hit, and they're shotgunned everywhere on the body vs a target the size of any IS heavy.
Launch a IS-LRM15 and still 1-3 missles will completely miss their target, and thats with full LOS.
With IS Artemis, that number of misses goes down, but just barely as its still shotgunning and giving around 40-50% CT hits.

Clan Missles have an almost guaranteed 100% hitrate against a similar target with no AMS, and those hits are almost 65% CT.
Put Artemis on Clan missles and its up to the 75% range for doing CT cores.

Now I do understand that both IS and Clan launchers keep their spread patterns regardless of their target, so lights still get nailed easily much more with Clan missles because of their base accuracy cone.

Biggest problem is, there are some balance tradeoffs legitimately available to the IS such as Hotloads that aren't being made available to IS pilots, while clan tech is getting all its perks.

IS is getting the shaft hardcore.

Where are you getting these statistics? Clearly not from playing, the hit rate for lrms is somewhere around 40% w/ artemis and 33% without. Clearly you have not the slightest clue what you're talking about...

[xhrit]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Where did my post about Clan Lurms being unable to indirect fire go?

Okay, here's the short and sweet gist of it. Clan Lurms would be given a flat trajectory such that they can no longer be used like artillery. To counter the effects of such a nerf, they would be given things like a faster lock-on, faster travel time, maybe better tracking, etc. etc. They would be geared for direct-combat, rather than support-artillery like IS Lurms.

This kind of deviates from TT a bit, but at the same time it gives the Clan Lurms a more distinct playstyle and fits their "honor" rules better.

It deviates from TT a bit, but it plays more like MW2, and that would be a good thing.

[Bobby Blast]

You don't even see LRMs in high ELO games so who cares?

[Urielliam]

CheeseThief, on 13 July 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

It's a great idea.

There might soon be some LRMs in the group queue for me to NARC for.

And a lot of friendly fire when you open up and someone walks in front of your volley. It should be fun

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 13 July 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Does anyone realize the math behind LRM min range is exponential?

For instance, 90m = 50% distance (of 180m) -> .5 "squared" = .25 (25% of normal damage)
120m = 66% distance ->.66 "squared" = .44 (44% of normal damage)
135m = 75% distance -> .75 "squared" = .56 (56% of normal damage)
144m = 80% distance -> .8 "squared" = .64 (64% of normal damage)
162m = 90% distance -> .9 "squared" = .81 (81% of normal damage)

In essence, if your target is JUST crossing the 180m threshold, you'll be doing reasonable amounts of damage. Once they REALLY close on you, you're doing squat for damage.

But..dude...EL ARE EMMMSS!!!!!