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Friendly fire? yes or no


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#181 donkeybas

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:55 PM

View PostProhet of Entropy, on 21 June 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

FF on for sure. yes people miss, and some people will do it intentionaly. In WoT i killed 6-7 team mates intentionaly cause of what they were doing/how they were acting...


This is called griefing, which is exactly what people are talking about. Guess we'll have to watch out for you in public matches...

If you're killing a team-player that's different. But it sounds like you're saying...

"I don't like where you're standing/how you spell words in chat, so I one-shotted you with my Atlas"

I have no problem with FF, people want it and it fits in sim themes, but if it's anything like WoT, you'll see an griefer or two every half a dozen matches or less, and it makes it a pain for everyone. Even the enemy team doesn't want to deal with it despite giving them the advantage. No one has fun when your team is dealing with a laser-spamming raging teen-angst player, who is probably 45.

FF'ers can completely throw games, so for those that want FF, be prepared to lose matches over it.

Edited by donkeybas, 24 June 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#182 RG Notch

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:01 PM

View Postdonkeybas, on 24 June 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:


This is called griefing, which is exactly what people are talking about. Guess we'll have to watch out for you in public matches...

"I don't like where you're standing/how you spell words in chat, so I one-shotted you with my Atlas"

I have no problem with FF, people want it and it fits in sim themes, but if it's anything like WoT, you'll see an griefer or two every half a dozen matches or less, and it makes it a pain for everyone, even the enemy team doesn't want to deal with it when it gives them the advantage, when your team is dealing with a laser-spamming raging teen-angst player, who is probably 45.

I don't get it, people must be talking about some other game than World of Tanks when they say WoT, because I have never seen much griefing. Does it happen? Sure, but I would say once in 50 matches at worst. I haven't played in months, just went back this week because I'm jonesing for Mech action and for me WoT is the closest I can get for now, and haven't seen one intentional TK.
I think this over hyped fear of greifers in F2P is silly. The type of person who does it doesn't have the attention span to make multiple accounts and keep it up.
Anyways, I'm gratified to see a massive support for FF on in this thread. Don't let fear ruin a good thing.

#183 Coolant

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostFactorlanP, on 21 June 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:



The penalty should be severe, very severe.


+1...nothing ruins a game more than intentional teamkilling...here's hoping the devs have instituted severe penalties...

Edited by Coolant, 24 June 2012 - 07:05 PM.


#184 donkeybas

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostRG Notch, on 24 June 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I don't get it, people must be talking about some other game than World of Tanks when they say WoT, because I have never seen much griefing. Does it happen? Sure, but I would say once in 50 matches at worst. I haven't played in months, just went back this week because I'm jonesing for Mech action and for me WoT is the closest I can get for now, and haven't seen one intentional TK.
I think this over hyped fear of greifers in F2P is silly. The type of person who does it doesn't have the attention span to make multiple accounts and keep it up.
Anyways, I'm gratified to see a massive support for FF on in this thread. Don't let fear ruin a good thing.


I don't think anyone is afraid of anything in a video game, it's...a video game. I just don't want it to become a nuisance. The "I don't see it much so it must not happen" perception is pretty narrow, by the way, so you might want to look into that.

#185 Saevus

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:27 PM

There will need to be plenty of ways to deal with griefers via game mechanics, but FF must be on.

#186 RG Notch

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:54 PM

View Postdonkeybas, on 24 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:


I don't think anyone is afraid of anything in a video game, it's...a video game. I just don't want it to become a nuisance. The "I don't see it much so it must not happen" perception is pretty narrow, by the way, so you might want to look into that.

Just bringing my experiences to counter the over hyped "experiences" of others. Since I don't see, my guildies and friends who play don't see it I'm fine with relating my experiences, and at least I said it was my experience as opposed to the it happens every other game or what nor people exagerate about. I am afraid, afraid that baseless fears will ruin a game I want to enjoy.
Your experiences will vary but I can't see it as big an issue as some people try to make it out. Just trying to state how the game runs for me and my friends.

#187 Cole Christensen

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:02 PM

Like everyone else has said, FF is a MUST. Except, I am curios what the "severe" penalties everyone keeps talking about would be... Not that I want to play WMO to grief, but I would hate to be punished too hard for accidents.

#188 BFalcon

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:36 PM

View PostJiri Starrider, on 24 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

FF on. Yes please. You should have to pay for any repairs (unlike WoT which only compensates you if you die from FF) and any exp you would have gotten if the damage had been to an enemy is taken from you (to a possible minimum of 0) and given to the team mate you damaged. So if you would have earned 250 exp (totally random numbers with no basis in reality) if all your damage had been to an enemy, but 75 of that was from a friendly, you don't get that 75 and infact have 75 removed from your "legitimate" total. So 150 exp at the end for you and the guy you hit gets 75 extra on top of what he did.

That will encourage people to watch where they are aiming.

To deal with outright on purpose, repeat, team damage/killing, borrow from WoT. Once over a certain rolling threshold you become a legitimate target for your team, and are automatically reported.

Balancing that is the trick, saw plenty of incidental, but potentially very damaging, team damage in the videos. Friendly mech crossing your line of fire while the lasers are burning, LRM scatter, etc. That's just part of the game IMO and the friendly should be aware that you were back there pounding on the target with continuous beam weapons.

Not sure about what other games do though. Vote kick, etc. Think it should be based on unbiased "what you did" not potentially biased "what others think you did/might do". Possibly a vote feature that comes up if a player does get flagged as a team killer to allow them as a target or not.


You would then have idiots exploiting that and intentionally diving into your salvos to wreck your income and to gain extra themselves. Admittedly, they'd be likely to be drunk and think it was funny, but you get all sorts in online gaming - particularly F2P (ftp means something else online).

Basically, I'd support the "damage paid for by the damaging party and the XP hit" part, but not the giving the XP to the victim - if he was either stupid or unlucky enough to get in the way of a legitimate shot, then he shouldn't gain XP for it. If he was hit by an intentional TKer, then the damage being paid for will go a long way towards helping to compensate for that player.

If a player ends up with negative XP, they should have a "TK strike" on their record and a suspension - this should be something that people can see while loading the map, so allowing them to be wary of that player (guess who'll get point where everyone can keep an eye on them). 3 TK strikes and you get banned. The suspension would help to prevent drunk players or unauthorised guests (eg 10-year-old children playing on dad or grandad's computer) from wrecking their account in a single evening. Strikes could be removed after, say, 3 months of good behaviour or 30 games with positive XP.

FF doesn't have to be a bad thing - it just means that you need to think before you fire or while maneuvering. Incidents happen, though.

#189 GHQCommander

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostGeriatric Commandos, on 24 June 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:


Agreed, big time.



lol Huh?


I was saying, I hope a founders mech allows us to make enough c-bills to also allow more AC in use. Ammo costs in the game and we can't carry enough of it to be carrying too many AC.

But I want to try. I'm a good shot and up close on a weak target could be effective.

If there was no FF.

Plenty players would just fire like crazy. No skill involved at all. They would be getting lucky hits and using heat sinks like crazy.

#190 Th3Crying W0lf

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostCCC Dober, on 21 June 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Similar question: griefing enabled - yes or no?
I prefer not to deal or receive friendly fire. If we can tick that option, fine. If not, griefers will make you regret it.


I think FF should be on but if a pilot lands Xnumber of hits on a friendly the lance should be given the option to kick. Though this leaves the lance at a numbers disadvantage maybe (though very doubtful) the kicked player could be replaced with an AI or the slot maybe open to be filled midgame by a Lone Wolf.

#191 Earl Whitehaven

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:14 PM

View PostLivebait, on 21 June 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'm okay with FF on. I'd just like it reduced by half because you know a newbie is gonna blow a hole in your backside just as you are about to get that killer shoot off. But then again I'm not a lore purist.

I get where you coming from but personally I think FF should be normal damage just to make people think a little more before they shoot. If it is halved I think some people wouldn't think twice before shooting.

#192 BatHunter

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:17 PM

There is no such thing as friendly fire. Bullets, lasers, and missiles do not have friends. Your fire causing damage to your teammates should make you think when you shoot and maneuver accordingly. Accidents do happen, as I have seen in WoT when I have hit a teammate by accident. Have fire cause the same damage against teammates as enemy. Have a c-bill penalty when it happens.

If someone is constantly hitting teammates, report it to admin. Have a set penalty determination and if/how many warnings are given. Then if keep playing this way, boot from servers so cannot play anymore. WoT doesn't have many issues with people shooting teammates, so it must work with them.

Weapons in the game need to make you think about their use, and that you cannot just randomly firing without thought.

#193 Nairdowell

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:18 PM

I'm just surprised that this has gone on for 10 pages in the forum...

Been playing online games for many years, seen maybe a half dozen total intentional team kills, been hit a number of times by mistake.... and yet many here want to severely penalize even honest mistakes...

When the game actually starts, you'll see dozens of accidental hits as people learn the ropes, as they play with different control configs and different weapon types..... and what if in later days a commander calls in an arty strike and you happen to wander into its path? Penalize the whole team for that one....

Methinks that many doth protest too much...

Let the devs work it out... take any differences out onto the field.... and let this poor decomposing equine finally rest.... lol

#194 Ricama

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:19 PM

Didn't the clans actually tk or at least team damage over kill stealing in the begining of the invasion?

#195 CWSureshot

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:26 PM

FF a must in battletech\mechwarrior imo.

#196 BFalcon

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:26 PM

View PostNairdowell, on 24 June 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm just surprised that this has gone on for 10 pages in the forum...

Been playing online games for many years, seen maybe a half dozen total intentional team kills, been hit a number of times by mistake.... and yet many here want to severely penalize even honest mistakes...

When the game actually starts, you'll see dozens of accidental hits as people learn the ropes, as they play with different control configs and different weapon types..... and what if in later days a commander calls in an arty strike and you happen to wander into its path? Penalize the whole team for that one....

Methinks that many doth protest too much...

Let the devs work it out... take any differences out onto the field.... and let this poor decomposing equine finally rest.... lol


Sadly, having played CoD 4 and BF:1942, you do get idiots who like to TK - the favourite in BF used to be shooting people waiting for vehicles - luckily not something that we need to worry about. You might get someone intentionally cripple a friendly mech to stop them getting the last kill or something. People are weird.

My suggestion, above, was trying to be as fair as possible to accidental incidents as possible (the XP hit from the damage caused should be slight and the cash hit kinda realistic, as your CO probably wouldn't look too kindly on your having done it and a merc unit might well dock you some pay to pay for it) while being strict with those who'd do it too much.

In order to get negative XP on the mission, you'd need to be constantly shooting friendlies and not actually helping with the mission - hardly indicative of an accidental incident, hmm? :(

#197 Melcyna

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:46 PM

That's all fine and good, and that's more or less how most games handle friendly fire...

In regular FPS though you then get griefers that purposely block you for exactly that purpose (particularly when the penalty for TK is quite harsh).

Fortunately for us however, this is less of a problem in games where you don't die immediately from being shot because frankly even these griefers function quite well as a meatshield when they act in that manner (though they can still annoy the snipers and long range support).

In either case however, the complaint system is generally needed to fully flesh out the system.

Mind you that the complaint system is generally just to point the mod to potential hotspot or troublemakers, and not to actually administer the penalty itself except in the cases where the perpetrator is causing serious damage constantly (which gives a very good chance that it's probably on purpose)

#198 Thorgar Wulfson

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:51 PM

worse i have seen in world of tanks is two idiots shooting at our teams artillery. i killed them both, got -2 and went blue status. then played out the rest of the match normally against the enemy.

#199 TyGeR STD

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:05 PM

I'm hoping this is spost to be as Sim-ish as posable, so I would hope FF is on. I in games that disable FF it really changes the play style.

#200 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

Cash. Pay for the repairs, and maybe a substantial cash penalty if you blow up a friendly mech.

XP? meh. That's going to go harsh on new players who tend to spray and pray.





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