81 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Zolaz, on 15 July 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

How many JJs do you need in a Heavy in order to clear one level of elevation?

None.

Or one, depending on what the change looks like.

A 'mech can change up to two levels of elevation when walking or running at a cost of +1 MP per elevation level. It cannot pass a 3-elevation change at all without jumping (and would need at least 3 JJs to do clear it).

One jump jet gives one level of elevation clearance; so standing next to a 1-level building, a 'mech with 1 JJ could jump on top of it.

A 'mech with two jump jets could jump from its starting hex over a forest hex (2 elevation levels high) and land in a hex on the other side. A 'mech with one jump jet could not (in part because it couldn't get enough height, in part because it could only jump one hex...)

A 'mech without jump jets can climb a building (provided it has at least one hand), but otherwise cannot traverse over buildings. Through them is fine (at the risk of taking damage, falling over and/or falling over and taking damage), but not over.

Now that I've written all this, I do hope you were asking for the TT rules (and since you used "level of elevation" I guess you were)

Edited by stjobe, 16 July 2014 - 03:26 AM.

[Macster16]

I run JR7-F with 1jj (yes I run a 1jj build, shoot me).

With new patch, I still run it, but I pretty much primarily use the 1jj now to break falls or coast up slopes or perform midair turns. It's not as versatile as it was before, but there are still uses you can get out of 1jj.

Overall, I'm in agreement with the new changes in principle, it just needs tweaking here and there IMO. A start would be giving the original thrust/height back to those clan mechs with fixed JJs such as the Nova and Summoner (this way, they get a kind of indirect buff which they could do with).

[Monkey Lover]

Im having a hard time breaking falls to zero dmg on long drops with my lights. My summoner with 5 jj can't jump on top of anything anymore. I don't see the reason to have all 5 if I can't get up on a building or over a hill.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 16 July 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I know we still have no JJ heat......3% heat is no heat lol....

[Kitane]

LordKnightFandragon, on 16 July 2014 - 04:11 AM, said:

I know we still have no JJ heat......3% heat is no heat lol....

It doesn't generate much heat, but it's enough to prevent you from cooling down while JJs are active.

[CeeKay Boques]

stjobe, on 16 July 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

None.

Or one, depending on what the change looks like.

A 'mech can change up to two levels of elevation when walking or running at a cost of +1 MP per elevation level. It cannot pass a 3-elevation change at all without jumping (and would need at least 3 JJs to do clear it).

One jump jet gives one level of elevation clearance; so standing next to a 1-level building, a 'mech with 1 JJ could jump on top of it.

A 'mech with two jump jets could jump from its starting hex over a forest hex (2 elevation levels high) and land in a hex on the other side. A 'mech with one jump jet could not (in part because it couldn't get enough height, in part because it could only jump one hex...)

A 'mech without jump jets can climb a building (provided it has at least one hand), but otherwise cannot traverse over buildings. Through them is fine (at the risk of taking damage, falling over and/or falling over and taking damage), but not over.

Now that I've written all this, I do hope you were asking for the TT rules (and since you used "level of elevation" I guess you were)

In this scenario "One Level of elevation" would be up to your Mech's hips.

[stjobe]

Technoviking, on 16 July 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

In this scenario "One Level of elevation" would be up to your Mech's hips.

One level of elevation in TT is "approximately 6 meters high, waist-high to a 'Mech" (Total Warfare, p. 31)

The height of 'Mechs is a much-discussed and argued issue, but TT rules state that 'Mechs have partial cover if standing behind one elevation level, and full cover behind two elevation levels. This would make 'Mechs 6-12 metres tall.

Total Warfare, p. 20 says 'Mechs are "eight to fourteen metres tall".

IIRC, in MWO 'Mechs range between 9-18 metres tall, so a bit taller than canon.

Edited by stjobe, 16 July 2014 - 05:52 AM.

[Sandslice]

Adiuvo, on 15 July 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Mechs that have all of them were basically buffed.

I can partially disconfirm, though I'll do more tests after work. I run the full 7 on my Griffin, and I can't jump out of the canyon now (whereas I could do so easily before.)

[Adiuvo]

Sandslice, on 16 July 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I can partially disconfirm, though I'll do more tests after work. I run the full 7 on my Griffin, and I can't jump out of the canyon now (whereas I could do so easily before.)

When I said that I was mainly checking out light mechs, which, apparently, were the only mech class that now jumps higher with more JJs.

My mistake

[Felio]

Deathlike, on 15 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Define "one level".

I use the water to Citadel in River City as reference, so for the most part... 3 is bare min. 4 is more or less "enough". This is with a 3D.

What part is the citadel?

[DEMAX51]

Felio, on 16 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

What part is the citadel?

The big building that juts out into the water at the south end of the map.

Edit: Picture

Edited by DEMAX51, 16 July 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I can barely get on the citadel anymore with 4 JJ's in the 3D

I have no issues with the fact that JJ elevation climb is significantly slower, but I do have a problem that most mechs even with max JJ # have less ups than a middle aged white guy.


I've gone back to running 2 JJ's on my 3D's and use them for hovering/ clearing for shots. Actual jumping in mostly gone, but it is still very easy and simple to jump snipe.

[XX Sulla XX]

Seems they still work OK for jump sniping but not well for jump brawling or being able to jump up on buildiings etc. So time to make a jump sniper it seems. Thanks so much PGI :/

[DAYLEET]

My Highlander felt incredibly heavy, it was quite something to see it clear the groung and i could still get on top of the smaller building in Crimson, even though the building should crumble. I think for heavy its cool. I had 4jj.

My nova felt meh at best but i could still clear everything i needed to clear. I cant just poptart easy with lasers now, i dont have the height to keep the laser duration on target, id either have to switch to ppc or stop doing that... ill stop doing that. I had default number of jj which i dont know...

I saw lights jj all night too but they keep lower in the air. Maybe the people are just playing better and not just emptying their jj and then fall back to earth.

[Karamarka]

Sandslice, on 16 July 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I can partially disconfirm, though I'll do more tests after work. I run the full 7 on my Griffin, and I can't jump out of the canyon now (whereas I could do so easily before.)

I can confirm they are all nerfed...

Just because it says 33JD on Mechlab, doesn't mean its better than 28. Less height = Less gliding so less overall distance. Your X lasts longer but you have less Y so you go less.

Source:

Nova sucks, Summoner sucks and most just hump walls to get up them now looking idiotic. With FIVE jj

Edited by Karamarka, 16 July 2014 - 11:40 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

I feel that people that put in the tonnage for JJs are punished here in the name of punishing 1 jjers.

If I put 8 JJ in a Mech, I should get some air. Its fun! Give us Fun!

[Karamarka]

Technoviking, on 16 July 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

I feel that people that put in the tonnage for JJs are punished here in the name of punishing 1 jjers.

If I put 8 JJ in a Mech, I should get some air. Its fun! Give us Fun!

They said its because they felt mechs were "flying" the only ones that were really troublesome were the laggy spider and maybe some other..... otherwise i saw zero problem.

[Iron War]

I have used my jester alot so im used to her movement. She is fast, maneuverable and can be a good jump sniper. (Never considered this cheese because she had no ballistic) Adding fall damage made it a little more of a challenge with only 2 jump jets max you needed to have some thrust left to land. But now changing the max hight it made it easier. With only 2 JJ i can max out my thrust and not worry about leg damage because I cant get high enough for damage. (as long as im on level ground)

But Jump snipping isnt what made this mech so much fun for me. it was its mobility. Brawling with a catapult is not easy but the JJ made it fun and do able. I say the changes are fine But those mechs that do carry max JJ should not feel the change. And make it so mechs like the jester that can only carry 2 JJ can use a level higher JJ. So for example a catapult could use a lvl 2 or 1 JJ instead of only a lvl 3. it would mean sacrificing weight for mobility.

But Bottom line this latest 'Fix' didnt do anything to jump sniping but broke brawling and mobility with jump jets.

BTW: Do we need max number of JJs as long as its a JJ capable mech???

Edited by Iron War, 16 July 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Gralzeim]

The folks who use just one jump jet aren't really using them for full-on jumps anyway, they're using them to turn faster. Which in my opinion should never have been a thing. Jump jets should be for jumping, point to point, shouldn't be able to rotate in mid air.

So the people who use just one haven't really been penalized, really. They still get to use them to turn quickly. At the very least, if they keep that mechanic, it should have some sort of drawback, such as 'stunning' your mech for a second while it stabilizes itself, or at least keeping the turn speed the same as on ground (or slower).

[Cerlin]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Sounds like it.

I have always maxed or near maxed the JJs out on all my mechs and even then I have felt the current jump heights very restrictive. Keep in mind, that per TT rules, mechs are suppose to be able to jump something like 3 times their height.

If they are making it so that a 5 JJ Quickdraw now jumps like a 1-2 JJ Quickdraw did before, then yeah us JJ users got screwed yet again.

You do realize before 1 JJ worked like full basically on everything but the highlander?
So its basically getting fixed?