67 replies to this topic

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

darkkterror, on 15 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

1) People complain that arm lock isn't a real toggle
2) PGI makes arm lock a real toggle
3) People complain that arm lock is now a real toggle.

To think I actually wanted to be a game developer one day...

+1 X Infinity...

what the hell is wrong with you people?

And for the most part, it's a given that eventually when you get better at the game.. you will just turn arm lock off since you want to have the flexibility to have freedom to use your arms independently.

but of course that means you have to aim more and not rely on alpha strikes.... god forbid...

[Mawai]

darkkterror, on 15 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

1) People complain that arm lock isn't a real toggle
2) PGI makes arm lock a real toggle
3) People complain that arm lock is now a real toggle.

To think I actually wanted to be a game developer one day...

Your comment should really be:

1) People who want an arm-lock toggle complain that the existing implementation should be changed. EVERY OTHER PLAYER that is mostly happy with the existing situation says NOTHING (why should they ... they like the way it is and PGI offers NO feedback that they actually are paying any attention whatsoever to what the players are saying).

2) PGI makes a real arm lock toggle AND REMOVES THE EXISTING IMPLEMENTATION (for no reason that is readily apparent).

3) The people who liked it the way it was NOW COMPLAIN because the mechanic was changed for what they consider to be no good reason and the version that they preferred and were happy with was removed.

I think this summation makes it clear that if you are a game developer you need to consider that when adding a feature to the game play interface which is as trivial as this one ... it is a good idea to KEEP the existing version and ADD an option rather than remove the existing feature and generate a whole new wave of feedback and unhappy players.

[Solahma]

EDIT: basically go ninja'd

The problem is, they REPLACED the mechanic instead of ADDING an new mechanic. The people that wanted the toggle are now happy, and the people who didn't are now upset. The whole situation could have been avoided if they just ADDED the damn toggle option to the list of controls. Take something away from the game and you will have people justifiably upset. If you want to be a game developer someday, watch and learn from mistakes.

Edited by Solahma, 15 July 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Philldoe]

Bromineberry, on 15 July 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

I wan't the option too. Every modern shooter has it: "Duck = Button X" "Toggle Duck = yes/no".

GIVE THIS MAN A POPSICLE

[Solahma]

can we please get the "duck" feature back

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

Solahma, on 15 July 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

EDIT: basically go ninja'd

The problem is, they REPLACED the mechanic instead of ADDING an new mechanic. The people that wanted the toggle are now happy, and the people who didn't are now upset. The whole situation could have been avoided if they just ADDED the damn toggle option to the list of controls. Take something away from the game and you will have people justifiably upset. If you want to be a game developer someday, watch and learn from mistakes.

or... maybe.. just maybe... they want to encourage players to eventually turn off arm lock and start using the mechs they way they were intended to be used, which means doing an alpha strike with all the pinpoint damage and whatnot is tougher because you have to converge wherever your arms were with your torso yourself.

I understand peoples frustration, but honestly, just try playing with arm lock off and after awhile you get used to it... if anything with all the jump jet supermechs flying around, It's made my life easier blasting them in the air.

[divinedisclaimer]

Of course I went ahead and figured out how to do it the old way and enjoyed myself all day...

BaronBastardKiller, on 15 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

or... maybe.. just maybe... they want to encourage players to eventually turn off arm lock and start using the mechs they way they were intended to be used, which means doing an alpha strike with all the pinpoint damage and whatnot is tougher because you have to converge wherever your arms were with your torso yourself.

I understand peoples frustration, but honestly, just try playing with arm lock off and after awhile you get used to it... if anything with all the jump jet supermechs flying around, It's made my life easier blasting them in the air.

You're stupid. The old setting allowed me to have arm lock turned off at all times. So you're literally pissing into the wind, the reason I wanted it that way is because I don't want arm lock most of the time. A toggle doesn't make sense because I would be toggling it back after less than two seconds on most uses.

Than again, I'm better than you.

Like I said, the straight dope is that it's probably better habit to toggle it constantly. Unfortunately, old habits die hard and expecting your fanbase to un-learn muscle memory for a bit of text consistency in the setting menu is bullshit. If you're really good at video games, you don't think about the controls at all, you just do it. Once you're at that point un-doing how you do it is very difficult.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 15 July 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[Pjwned]

Yep, I was thinking about making a thread for this myself because I preferred holding the button down, in large part because I pretty much never have arm lock turned off for any extended period of time. I'm aware that probably makes me perform slightly worse than otherwise in some infrequent situations but that's how I like to play, I don't want arm lock turned off unless I'm holding the button because it's simple and effective enough.

I don't understand why the option was removed when the SAME EXACT THING happened when PGI removed the "fire selected weapon group" binding and then some people moaned about it; personally I didn't care about that much but apparently it affected some peoples' setups, and the point is it's the same principle here.

Edited by Pjwned, 15 July 2014 - 07:10 PM.

[divinedisclaimer]

BaronBastardKiller, on 15 July 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

+1 X Infinity...

what the hell is wrong with you people?

And for the most part, it's a given that eventually when you get better at the game.. you will just turn arm lock off since you want to have the flexibility to have freedom to use your arms independently.

but of course that means you have to aim more and not rely on alpha strikes.... god forbid...

I never complained about arm lock... lol.

They didn't do it because people complained, they did it because the word toggle should mean toggle.

Since the "arm lock" check-box is now useless, only determining the default state at the beginning of a game:

It should be replaced with a radio box labeled "ARM LOCK TOGGLE." The control in the keybinds should just say "ARM LOCK" and that radio button should change it's behavior between being a toggle and being while-held. There should be a second radio button labeled "ARM LOCK INVERT" or something, for the people who prefer using their arm lock key to unlock the arms temporarily.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 15 July 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I'm so glad PGI finally fixed the arm lock button. As it was it was a semi-game-breaking button that let people instantly snap their torso to their arms, which was hugely powerful for jump sniping especially. Now they at least have to take the time to press it a second time to turn it off.

[divinedisclaimer]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 July 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

I'm so glad PGI finally fixed the arm lock button. As it was it was a semi-game-breaking button that let people instantly snap their torso to their arms, which was hugely powerful for jump sniping especially. Now they at least have to take the time to press it a second time to turn it off.

And now you can only do it if you know how to use Auto Hotkey, so I'm cool with it.



Number of times accused of hacking today: 2.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 15 July 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Roland]

divinedisclaimer, on 15 July 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

A toggle doesn't make sense because I would be toggling it back after less than two seconds on most uses.

That's generally what I do... Because, if you're holding it down anyway, then you actually aren't moving your finger any more. It just means that you tap it to lock them, fire, then tap to unlock if you want.

The benefit the toggle has, is that in situations where you actually want to hold them locked for some extended period of time, you have the capacity to, without having to hold your finger on the button and tensing up the rest of your hand.

[BOWMANGR]

darkkterror, on 15 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

1) People complain that arm lock isn't a real toggle
2) PGI makes arm lock a real toggle
3) People complain that arm lock is now a real toggle.

To think I actually wanted to be a game developer one day...

This is exactly what I was thinking. ^^

[YueFei]

I prefer to have the option for both ways. It's a bit faster for me to just let go of the arm-lock after firing a 5-laser tracking shot from the HBK-4SP, rather than having to press the key.

[Windsaw]

darkkterror, on 15 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

1) People complain that arm lock isn't a real toggle
2) PGI makes arm lock a real toggle
3) People complain that arm lock is now a real toggle.

To think I actually wanted to be a game developer one day...

As long as you understand what people want you should do fine.

Last week I started playing Elite Dangerous.
A couple of days later I configured voice commands to control it, which went fine.
Then I thought that I would add a couple of commands for MWO. I tell you, at some times it was a frustrating experience because there were quite a couple of commands that there was no toggle function for.

There was no such problem in Elite Dangerous. You know why?
Because for almost every command there are either both options (toggle or hold) or a switch that decides which one it should be.
I thought: Okay, that's an improvement MWO could still get with voice commands getting more popular.

What we got instead is one option added and one removed.
In other words: One step forward and one step back.

Is it reasonable for players to complain about it?
You bet it is!
Because there are reasonable programmers out there who realize that giving players more options is not a bad thing at all.
If there was any conceivable good reason to remove one option, I want to hear it because I can't think of any.

Edited by Windsaw, 15 July 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[evilC]

See Fire Control in my sig for a macro that will give you back Arm Lock as a Momentary.

[Sorbic]

BaronBastardKiller, on 15 July 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

+1 X Infinity...

what the hell is wrong with you people?

And for the most part, it's a given that eventually when you get better at the game.. you will just turn arm lock off since you want to have the flexibility to have freedom to use your arms independently.

but of course that means you have to aim more and not rely on alpha strikes.... god forbid...

We had the freedom to use arms independently by hitting shift as needed. I often suffer motion sickness when playing FPS games and the extra twitchiness when turning (heck just watch most people fire) and stuff just pushes MWO over my tolerance threshold. I can remedy it by playing on an even smaller monitor but being able to just hold shift was a much better OPTION. Lately my favored mechs have been the Lotus, Stalker and Catapult so I only need to unlock when looking up/down.

[3rdworld]

http://www.reddit.co...ggle_macro_fix/

Here are instructions on how to use a macro to accomplish the old arm lock feature.

GL.

[stjobe]

FupDup, on 15 July 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Armlock probably shouldn't even exist in the first place. It was introduced to help nubcakes avoid getting confused by the dual reticule system, but in actual gameplay it had the opposite effect. Noobs with armlock turned on get crushed helplessly. They have no ability to track targets, even slower ones, and can't twist away as fast when getting shot at.

Armlock currently only helps experienced players who use it to exploit convergence with their torso and arm mounted weapons, particularly while firing long-range weapons while airborne...

Exactly.

Armlock also stops you from doing cool things like taking out one enemy with your arm-mounted AC/10 and another with your CT-mounted 2xML, simultaneously, like I've done in my Centurion.

Sure, nine times out of ten it would be better to put all 20 damage in one place, but on occasion 10 damage to two targets is enough to get two kills

I can't remember last time I had armlock enabled, but then again I tend to run fast 'mechs with their main weaponry in their arms, and having armlock on is like fighting in a straitjacket on those; basically you're gimping yourself.

[evilC]

If you are trying to snipe with a torso mounted weapon, arm lock on gives much more predictable cursor movement (easier for muscle memory to learn).

Also arm lock on somewhat mitigates the bugs with advanced zoom (Crosshair deviation issues).

You want arm lock off to look around and gather SA though, as you can look around quicker with arm lock off (mouse input faster than you can torso twist is "thrown away" with arm lock on)