55 replies to this topic

[Noth]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Ughhh you are missing my point entirely. I was saying you can't compare HGN jump jets to lifting an M1 abrams tank and using an exaggerated argument like the Delta-II to point out how silly that is. And what rocket engine in BT is needed to propel an HGN less then 100m into the air? Why would they use a large rocket engine to do that when the HGN has jump jets?

Are you talking about dropships that take mechs off the planet? Because I'm not arguing that an HGN should thrust like that...

Even launching something like The Highlander 100 meters in the air (at the speed players seem to want) would take a crap ton of thrust

[Deathlike]

pwnface, on 15 July 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

• JJ Class II (Victor)

Boost instant changed from 522.14 -> 200

Boost_z changed from 60.71 -> 68
Heat changed 0.1 -> 2.25, 0.25


How did PGI even come up with these values?? Victors get a jump jet vertical buff but all heavys got a nerf? I'm confused.

Nerfinator said:

I did what I had to do!

[Kiiyor]

StaggerCheck, on 15 July 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Oddly, you actually have MORE thrust height with the patch. It is calculated at 5.9m per Jump Jet... so two Jump Jets for jump sniping used to provide 11.3m of height... but now provide for 11.9m. The patch actually solidified the two Jump Jet build for the DS.

heh, the premier poptart! Is it still as mobile in the air though?

[Gas Guzzler]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Even launching something like The Highlander 100 meters in the air (at the speed players seem to want) would take a crap ton of thrust

I don't want 100 meters I just threw that number out there, and really thrust only affects acceleration (in RL, but mechs don't seem to accelerate much). Duration effects jump height.

Either way, we are talking about a futuristic thruster here, so I really don't see how your argument is valid. It can technically have as much thrust as the PGI gods decide to give it.

[pwnface]

yeah...forget 100m how about just lifting 10-15m vertically? The highlander "hovers" no matter how many jump jets you put in it, it simply doesn't jump. After the last jump-jet nerf you could at least tell you were going up, now it just feels like you are gliding forward like on ice skates

[Gas Guzzler]

Kiiyor, on 15 July 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

heh, the premier poptart! Is it still as mobile in the air though?

Well yes, but it definitely climbs slower with 2 jets then it did before.

[Archon]

I've actually stopped using my Highlanders all together. I used to love this mech, and I only used the one jumpjet for maneuverability (not jump sniping) but it was so overnerfed and now it's just meh. I got sick of getting stuck on every single pebble and not being able to even get over a small hill with one jumpjet, something I used to be able to do but now can't. The ridges in canyon network are especially a pain.

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 15 July 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

yeah...forget 100m how about just lifting 10-15m vertically? The highlander "hovers" no matter how many jump jets you put in it, it simply doesn't jump. After the last jump-jet nerf you could at least tell you were going up, now it just feels like you are gliding forward like on ice skates

Yeah this is really what my problem is, I don't care that they chopped the jump height in half with this patch, I do care that 8 tons of jump jets barely gives you the sensation of climbing.

[Aresye]

DONTOR, on 15 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Holy crap I just realsed I havent seen highlanders in weeks.

That's because they're referred to as, "Groundnevertakeoffers," now.

[pwnface]

highlanders = "gluedtolanders"

[Solahma]

pwnface, on 15 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

highlanders = "gluedtolanders"

Petition for name change to reflect accuracy.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Interesting point of view. So which is heavier, an Assault or one of these:




FYI: Delta IIs weigh over 150 tons, I'll just give you the answer.


I know its not a perfect comparison, but just because its bigger doesn't mean slower. It does have more powerful jump jets that weight 2 tons, so I don't see a reason why it should be so much slower then a Victor/TW/CTF...

what's the power to thrust ratio?

That sorta matters more than mass.

[MischiefSC]

The point of the tank reference is to but the mass and clumsy nature of whats being lifted into perspective.

In lore it seems like 90 tons is the cutoff. Victors are 'spry'. The Highlander is a lumbering beast that uses jjs as a raised middle finger to gravity.
Hi
ghlander burial and all.

[SgtMagor]

haven't tried my Highlander yet, can it even do a DFA now if they enabled collision. o well off to the test maps.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

what's the power to thrust ratio?

That sorta matters more than mass.

Give me Class I Jump Jet thrust values and I'll compare them.

Oh yeah, they are arbitrary

Seriously, hop in a 733C with all 4 jump jets and tell me how you feel.

Funny though, an M1 Abrams tank is 60-70 tons so Quickdraw I guess should be that clumsy too.

[Fiona Marshe]

The Class II JJs seem to have the wrong value, as it's out of step with the other classes.

[Khavi Vetali]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Highlander burial and all.

Pretty impossible to DFA someone when you can barely clear a mech and it takes 10 seconds to achieve that height.

[MischiefSC]

Actually, 10 sec is tt acurate

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Has anyone tried there Highlanders since the patch? Prior to the patch, 1-2 JJ Highlanders had very weak thrust. 3 was workable but I liked a little more zing so I had 4 (8 tons) in my 733C and 5 (10 tons) in my Heavy Metal.

After the patch today, I feel as if the thrust values have been adjusted too far. The Class I jump jets are twice the tonnage of the Victors, does anyone else feel like they should be a little more effective? Especially when mounting the max number of allowable jump jets?

To me it just feels like a little too much, and they create extra heat too now, actually raising heat level while jumping with max jets. I'm assuming Class I jets create more heat then the lesser jets. Just seems like a pretty hard slam for a Mech that wasn't even the competitors choice for Assaults because of its speed.

Hell yeah and I am friken pissed. I bought my Heavy Metal specifically because of its JJ agility and have always ran it with Max JJs. With the friken patch it lost at the very least half its height and distance and maybe more than that in actual acceleration. The JJ change has completely change how this mech plays and honestly it has little value to me without its previous jumping ability.

I paid damn good money for this mech and this change is totally unacceptable.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

what's the power to thrust ratio?

That sorta matters more than mass.

This is sort of easy.

Lets say a 0.5 ton JJ on a Spider produces 1 thrust. Therefore a 2 ton JJ on a Highlander should probably produce 4 thrust.

If we mount 4 JJs on a Spider then we would have 4 thurst. 4 JJs on a Highlander would have 16 thrust.

Spider weighs 30 tons, Highlander 90 tons. So the Highlander is 3 times the weight of the Spider BUT.....it has 4 times the thrust. Therefore, 4 JJs on a Highlander should be able to provide AT LEAST the same height, distance and acceleration as 4 JJs on the Spider, well if you look at Power-to-weight ratio.

Instead PGI is not only penalizing Assault mechs by having them mount massively heavy JJs but also making so these MASSSIVE JJs produce less thrust ones half the weight or less. Total BS.