134 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm guessing those who are disagreeing with the OP have not tried any Highlanders with max jump jets. The other nerfs are fine, yes Jump Jets needed to be balanced. But the HGN was hit too hard. All those who are saying whatever/it was needed/it shouldn't be able to jump worth a crap because its an assault mech/etc., I can only assume you just don't drive Highlanders so you don't give a rat's ass if its JJ's don't work.

The Highlander is useless now.

[Sprouticus]

Mister Blastman, on 16 July 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

The Highlander is useless now.

When was the last time we took a highlander as a primary damage mech in a Drop Blast. It has been the 2nd choice as an assault for 6 months. The DS is ALWAYS better. As it still is.

[Mister Blastman]

MechB Kotare, on 15 July 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

At the end, i must conclude, that MWO system of JJ functionality is broken. Always was. Once again i must say, that MWLL JJ system was perfect comparing to one in MWO, because it negated poptarting, and promoted actual jumpsniping. It even gave you movement advantage.

You are damn right it was. The jets in MW:LL were awesome. The balance was perfect. I could snipe all day in my PPC Osiris but the enemy got wise of it, I was in trouble. I was also a sitting duck, high in the sky, primed for missile hell.

Don't even let me get started about the advanced JJs... now those were REALLY useful!

Basically we have some awful representation of jets in MWO whereas MW:LL's and Mechwarrior 2's versions beat a modern, professional made version completely.

Sprouticus, on 16 July 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

When was the last time we took a highlander as a primary damage mech in a Drop Blast. It has been the 2nd choice as an assault for 6 months. The DS is ALWAYS better. As it still is.

It is now. It wasn't. You're right, it has been months since I've had us take a Highlander. Ever since it was nerfed the first time around, it became weak. This second nerf, well, it kills it.

That battle last week proves it...

And it pisses me off because I refuse to spend money for a DS. I guess we're all going back to 3Ds with Gauss for those of us not wanting to pony up real money.

Frankly though, I'm glad sniping is on the way out. I just completely disagree with how they are getting rid of it.

[tayhimself]

Please for gods sakes fix the Class I jump jets which only the HGN uses so far.

Again I'm taking this from Smurfy's which AFAIK uses the in game XML data.

JUMP JETS - CLASS I  1  2.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  33.00  90t - 200t 152,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS II  1  1.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  68.00  80t - 90t 132,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS III  1  1.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  45.00  60t - 80t 108,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS IV  1  0.5  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  45.00  40t - 60t 76,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS V  1  0.5  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  37.00  20t - 40t 44,000

How is a value of 33.00 thrust acceptable for a Class I JJ which weighs twice as much as a Class II while having half the thrust for a 15% increase in tonnage moved. Mind boggling PGI logic.

As a further nerf, Class II JJs are FAR better than class III despite weighing the same and moving 20% more tonnage.

(I know i was done to fix the 733C meta ****, but fix it now).

[kapusta11]

tayhimself, on 16 July 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Please for gods sakes fix the Class I jump jets which only the HGN uses so far.

Again I'm taking this from Smurfy's which AFAIK uses the in game XML data.

JUMP JETS - CLASS I  1  2.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  33.00  90t - 200t 152,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS II  1  1.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  68.00  80t - 90t 132,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS III  1  1.0  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  45.00  60t - 80t 108,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS IV  1  0.5  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  45.00  40t - 60t 76,000
JUMP JETS - CLASS V  1  0.5  10.00  Clan, InnerSphere  4.10  37.00  20t - 40t 44,000

How is a value of 33.00 thrust acceptable for a Class I JJ which weighs twice as much as a Class II while having half the thrust for a 15% increase in tonnage moved. Mind boggling PGI logic.

As a further nerf, Class II JJs are FAR better than class III despite weighing the same and moving 20% more tonnage.

(I know i was done to fix the 733C meta ****, but fix it now).

Victor still has the best JJs, ggclose PGI, pathetic.

[Karamarka]

kapusta11, on 16 July 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Victor still has the best JJs, ggclose PGI, pathetic.

They didin't want all those Highlanders doing death from above! Which wasn't even possible anyway, ahh those PGI guys nerfing things that don't even exist ! Such foresight

[Angel of Annihilation]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

The sort of condescending, assumptive and dismissive tone in the OP makes it impossible for me to even read the post or take anything they have to say seriously.

Honestly? If I was PGI and saw that I'd nerf the HGN again, on principle. cuz FU.

Do you speak to people like this in person? Dismissive, assumptive, spewing hyperbole and misinformation?

Okay, so you are upset about the changes to JJs on the HGN. Did you know it's possible to convey that like a mature adult in an intelligent and productive manner and be taken seriously?

Which, absolutely and without question, this sort of trash shouldn't be. What you've posted has no value, no use, no purpose save the tantrum a child throws when it doesn't get a candy bar - it gets attention and sympathy.

You poor boy. I'm so sorry. Life is so hard for you. Clearly everyone is so mean to you, clearly on purpose. It's all so unfair.

There you go. Do you feel better?

There's been a ton of this crap on the forums lately. It's totally legit to have a gripe - especially when something is wrong. I have plenty of my own and I'm quite open with sharing them. This though.... the response to these sorts of posts isn't to dig into the concern, is to wonder where society is failing in raising children to function around other people.

Well what can I say. My original post was intended as a Rant against the change, not some quite, contemplative discussion about why I don't like it.

There are tons of those types of thread so I really didn't need to rehash that. What I needed to do was hopefully demonstrate to PGI that I am unhappy with the changes and hopefully get others to express how they feel as well.

Remember, sometimes it takes a riot to cause change.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Are you serious? The HGN hasn't "floated around like a butterfly" for a very long time. Pre-patch, they were in a pretty good place. Relatively slow thrust but good height, what you would expect from a big mech with big jump jets. It is just so bad now. Before you came on to say this stuff, did you hop in one to try it? Don't have one? Then hop into the trial 733C and take it for a spin in the testing ground. Let me know how the floating around like a butterfly goes.

Standard HGN kinda sucked because they were limited to 3 JJs. The Heavy Metal on the other hand can mount a super honkin large XL engine and 5 JJs. I think my Heavy Metal had a 62m jump distance prior to the patch. It quite literally had massive hang time and distance available to it, more than almost any other mech except lights.

[ztac]

To OP , PGI have never wanted to fix poptarts , This is part of the precious Meta game! , they will never change it for fear of alienating their 'core' players who use this.

They like it how the game is (until revenues fall then they will implement some kind of knee jerk reaction no doubt!).

Funny thing is that I don't even see any heat on my JJ mechs , and they certainly jump high enough for most needs!

[KuroNyra]

E N E R G Y, on 15 July 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Further dilution of this game into a 1 dimensional brawling game at 200m. Worst thing possible for competition players, but best solution possible for casual pub imbeciles who just want to play for 1 hour after work and spend $$$ in the meaningless in-game content.

You have a problem against guy who actually work and have a life?
I hope that game will disgust you even more to not have the chance to have you in my team.

Your kind of people is probably one of the worst thing that can happened to a community.

Games are mean to be fun, and nothing. And absolutlyu NOTHING say that people who just play for one hours can't have the right to play.

I come back from work.
Started at 11.AM and Finished at 9.45PM.
+ 40 minutes of road.
And if I want to play a game. I can. And I have the right too.

But if for you that makes me an Imbecil: well sir: I say it. F*ck you.

Edited by KuroNyra, 16 July 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[Redhook]

I knew someone who ran a "Jumpjet Brawler" (yea he gave it a name) Which I might add was made by exploiting the broken mechanics of the jets. He would run a Timberwolf with a 73 alpha . He would wait till we all got torn apart and then come in like a 75 ton pogo stick. 3 buttons only .1 alpha 2- override shutdown and 3 jumpjet. landing 73 pinpoint alphas with no problem. YES 73 PINPOINT ALPHA TO THE CHEST. all the while blocking everyone from shooting or blowing up freindlys that got in his way. Taking out Direwolves in 3 seconds flat. He would make you second guess the build you worked hard to make and mabye discourage you from playing anymore. Made you feel foolish for owning anything other than his "Efficient build" Yea he finds this fun. Ironically he is constantly trying to dog PGI about j/j sniping, but now is upset about he "nerf" Talk about the pot calling the kettel black huh? Guys this isnt about nerfing jump snipers only. This is about ALL of the builds especialy "JUMP JET BRAWLERS" that substitute jump jets for skill in the game. And THERE WERE MANY! Jumping is to be used as one tactic in your mechs bag of tricks. It shouldnt be the ONLY component that makes a mech work right. I am starting a long list of mechs that exploited this with some freinds and will post it on these forums .

[Clit Beastwood]

MechB Kotare, on 15 July 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Thrust should be (imho) super fast, faster than it is, faster than it was. Even one single tap of JJ (key to poptart) would elevate you higher than you wanted exposing yourself behind cover long enough even for people with Lasers (long duration) to have chance of punishing you with their full damage.

Just thinking out loud here... what about different classes of JJ, with different weights? I.e. the super fast JATO style jets that launch you instantly are a lot lighter, but you have much less control... and finer "maneuvering jets" that weigh more, give less height, and generate heat (due to sustained burn time). That way, if you just want jets to hop in and out of brawly situations you can equip that type of jets. If you want a slow, controlled lift, you equip the other type. And no mixing the two.

Edited by Fierostetz, 16 July 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

The new jet mechanics remind me of Vector and Omega from plasma sword, minus the excellent music.

Please stop seemingly target nerfing every medium I put time into.

[hercules1981]

To Viktor Drake.
Instead they have a better idea. Lets make it so if you mount the maximum JJs on a mech, it only fuctions like they would have worked previously with just 2 JJs mounted on the mech. Yeah this solves the problem. NOT!!!

So wait u say this is stupid (above), then later say this is what it should be (below) seems like the same thing to me.WTF????

Those running 1 or 2 yeah, they should be penalized. Those running 3 should be getting about what 1 or 2 got you Pre-patch. Simple and easy without ruining the game for those who use JJs they way they were designed to be used.

[Alexandrix]

Mister Blastman, on 16 July 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

It is now. It wasn't. You're right, it has been months since I've had us take a Highlander. Ever since it was nerfed the first time around, it became weak. This second nerf, well, it kills it.

That battle last week proves it...

And it pisses me off because I refuse to spend money for a DS. I guess we're all going back to 3Ds with Gauss for those of us not wanting to pony up real money.

Frankly though, I'm glad sniping is on the way out. I just completely disagree with how they are getting rid of it.

Or you could....I dunno...just not meta hump

i'm kinda half poking a playful jab and half serious on that.I usually agree with most of what you have to say.

Anyways,I haven't had a chance to try the new jj's yet,So i don't really have a comment on that.However,I do think that jj's gave way to much benefit for such a small trade off.The maneuverability and tactical options that 1 or two tons of jj's(in most cases) could grant a mech was quite absurd in comparison to a non JJ mech.The mech with JJ's was almost always the better choice,hands down.That shouldn't be.If a mech COULD mount jj's,you did.plain and simple.You just got way to much out of them for it to even be an option not to.

Also,I have to disagree with you on the MW:LL and MW2 JJ's.Seeing mechs scoot and fly around the field was....to be blunt....stupid looking.These are 20-100 ton behemoths.They should not be dancing around like ballerina's,or scooting around like hovercraft.Maybe....MAYBE....some light mechs,or lighter mediums should have agility something like that,but not anything you slap one JJ on.JJ's should be used MAINLY as a movement option to traverse terrain that non jj mechs can't,make an escape/entrance,or whatever.Not to hop up and down behind a rock pressing 1 mouse button day in and day out.

'Course,that's just like.....my opinion man.

Edited by Alexandrix, 16 July 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

hercules1981, on 16 July 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

To Viktor Drake.
Instead they have a better idea. Lets make it so if you mount the maximum JJs on a mech, it only fuctions like they would have worked previously with just 2 JJs mounted on the mech. Yeah this solves the problem. NOT!!!

So wait u say this is stupid (above), then later say this is what it should be (below) seems like the same thing to me.WTF????

Those running 1 or 2 yeah, they should be penalized. Those running 3 should be getting about what 1 or 2 got you Pre-patch. Simple and easy without ruining the game for those who use JJs they way they were designed to be used.

Sorry but not sure where you were going with this. Partly it sounds like you are agreeing with me partly it sounds like your not.

In any case, I am actually agreeing with what you said in your last few sentences.

Yes 1-2 JJs should never have been viable. Yes having 3 JJs should probably get you what 1-2 gave you before. However, Max should be giving what max gave before. If you are devoting all that tonnage to have a jump capable mech, it should be able to jump.

The mech I own that is most effected is my Heavy Metal. It has the full 5 JJs on it and it used to be damn nimble. Now it is a whale and those 5 JJs are practically worthless. Same goes for my heavy mechs like the CTF 3D I own. It mounted max JJs and I could easily reach the top of the Canyon walls with just a little to spare to insure I cleared the lip of the canyon, now I have to time it perfectly or else I fall just short or get hung up on the lip stuck and motionless. My Quickdraws, one of my favorite mechs, also lost a massive amount of JJ mobility which pretty much killed anything useful about that mech. Without good JJ mobility it went from decent good to subpar.

In the end all I am saying is yes I understand and agree that the effectiveness of 1-2 jump jets was always something that needed to be addressed and nerfed. Honestly it never should have been allowed. However, the way the changed jump jets in this patch has way to much of a drastic effect on those who mounted max JJs. Those people didn't exploit the broken mechanic that allowed just 1-2 JJs to be effective as it was. Basically I just want my 5 JJ mech to actually act like it still has 5 pre-patch JJs, not act like it has only 2 pre-patch jump jets which was never really an effective amount for more than the Jump snipe/poptart meta anyway.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 16 July 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[hercules1981]

Viktor Drake, on 16 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Sorry but not sure where you were going with this. Partly it sounds like you are agreeing with me partly it sounds like your not.

In any case, I am actually agreeing with what you said in your last few sentences.

Yes 1-2 JJs should never have been viable. Yes having 3 JJs should probably get you what 1-2 gave you before. However, Max should be giving what max gave before. If you are devoting all that tonnage to have a jump capable mech, it should be able to jump.


The mech I own that is most effected is my Heavy Metal. It has the full 5 JJs on it and it used to be damn nimble. Now it is a whale and those 5 JJs are practically worthless. Same goes for my heavy mechs like the CTF 3D I own. It mounted max JJs and I could easily reach the top of the Canyon walls with just a little to spare to insure I cleared the lip of the canyon, now I have to time it perfectly or else I fall just short or get hung up on the lip stuck and motionless. My Quickdraws, one of my favorite mechs, also lost a massive amount of JJ mobility which pretty much killed anything useful about that mech. Without good JJ mobility it went from decent good to subpar.

In the end all I am saying is yes I understand and agree that the effectiveness of 1-2 jump jets was always something that needed to be addressed and nerfed. Honestly it never should have been allowed. However, the way the changed jump jets in this patch has way to much of a drastic effect on those who mounted max JJs. Those people didn't exploit the broken mechanic that allowed just 1-2 JJs to be effective as it was. Basically I just want my 5 JJ mech to actually act like it still has 5 pre-patch JJs, not act like it has only 2 pre-patch jump jets which was never really an effective amount for more than the Jump snipe/poptart meta anyway.

No no Viktor these 2 statements r what u said. I just copied and pasted them it seemed like u r trying to say the way they did it is dumb. Then the 2nd statement is from u saying you where good with it. But they seemed the same. So I guess I'm saying it seems hippocratical to me.Just check your 1st and 2nd post in this topic that's where I found those statements. I just didn't know how to quote from 2 statments so I just copy and paste.

Edited by hercules1981, 16 July 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Deathlike]

It has become an overall nerf to say the least.

Pretty much most mechs are jumping lower than they normally would... while that punishes 1 JJ users just dandy, everything that is reliant on multi-JJ setups are pretty much taking a loss (pretty much, anything that is max JJs or at least 3-4 min).

I'm not even sure if it's even sane to run a Highlander, when it's just a Lowlander, unable to lift. I guess making it another Atlas is "better". Torso overnerf anyone?

[A banana in the tailpipe]

I'm disgusted with how immobile my giant stompy robots have become.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

It has become an overall nerf to say the least.

Pretty much most mechs are jumping lower than they normally would... while that punishes 1 JJ users just dandy, everything that is reliant on multi-JJ setups are pretty much taking a loss (pretty much, anything that is max JJs or at least 3-4 min).

I'm not even sure if it's even sane to run a Highlander, when it's just a Lowlander, unable to lift. I guess making it another Atlas is "better". Torso overnerf anyone?