157 replies to this topic

[Falcrist]

^
this

I played several game today and most of my death were caused by lrm's coring my ct in seconds. I'm sure some of you guys have played WoT. Do you rememder the 6 or more arty games? Those games weren't fun at all and now i see this utterly bullshit in mwo. So the lrm spam have to be reduced asap by overhauling the game mechanics.

I suggest to make lrm's more like the TT version. You hit only with luck 3-4 times the same location which is now very common in mwo. The spread should be increased drastically, 2-3 times as it is now.
This should fix the set of problems.

[Grendel408]

Running Lights and Mediums... I've noticed some changes to changes to LRMs from a receiving end... I can say from my matches last night running on a Light, big improvement on LRMs... Clan and IS. Doing some spotting, take some LRMs myself... I took more damage from falling and direct-fire weapons than LRMs which is likely due to the splash damage being changed to direct pin-point damage.

[Panzerbjorn]

Summon3r, on 16 July 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

only issue i see with lrm's is there arc. reduced arc would fix the entire issue is one fell swoop, hell reduce there arc by ALOT and increase there speed ALOT and there range for that fact.

Clan LRMs already have a very low arc. They trace the ground most of the time.

[Sahrang]

the jump jets aren't anymore... but the lrm's still are...

good job pgi

Edited by Sahrang, 16 July 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[Panzerbjorn]

Falcrist, on 16 July 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

I played several game today and most of my death were caused by lrm's coring my ct in seconds.

If your CT was cored in seconds: 1) you were running a Light and standing still 2) you had 4-6 LRM boats targeting you at once 3) you did not make effective use of cover (and/or Rader Derp) 4) you were not under ECM cover 5) you were NARC'd 6) you were TAG'd 7) you and/or your team around you had little or no AMS 8) any combination of the above.

There are many ways to prevent being LRM'd to death, it's a part of strategy in this game. Your CT would get nuked just as fast if 4-6 laserboats or meta-pop-tarts had LoS on your CT at the same time, too. But you don't hear anyone whinging about that in the forums, so why (with so many counter-LRM options) are so many whingers in the forums sadfacing about LRMs?

[Sahrang]

Panzerbjorn, on 16 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

so why (with so many counter-LRM options) are so many whingers in the forums sadfacing about LRMs?

why? maybe because u DO NOT need any skill to use lrm's? maybe because u DO NOT need to see ur target to use lrm's?
do u want more?

[Panzerbjorn]

Sahrang, on 16 July 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

why? maybe because u DO NOT need any skill to use lrm's? maybe because u DO NOT need to see ur target to use lrm's?
do u want more?

Skilled players usually won't fire at targets who are either out of LoS or in an unknown position because it's a waste of ammo if they are in cover. For those of us who play on teams using coms, missile boats ask for hard-locks so teammates provide confirmation that a target is NOT in missile cover of some kind. If you're caught with your pants down like that, you deserve to die. Just locking up targets and firing LRMs randomly may work okay versus unskilled morons, but most players know a thing or two about playing the game and strategy these days.

Skilled player with LRMs and a good team using coms = 70-80% of my LRMs hit and do dmg.
Unskilled "win button" LRMer firing wildly = 20-30% of LRMs hit and do dmg.

Using LRMs effectively is not "easy mode" unless you allow it to be for the unskilled players who are using them. You should have the nerve and the honour to admit when you've made a tactical blunder and exposed yourself to open LRM fire. Using cover is part of the game. Nothing to see here but crybabies.

[Sahrang]

I think lrm's should start where srm's end (270m)

Panzerbjorn, u do not think that lrm's prevent the game to evolve? I mean, it's a very commun weapon now (with clans) , that dissuade any team to move. it's what it is designed for, but I think it dissuades too much at the moment


(english isn't my native language, u are free to tell me that u do not understand what i mean here

Edited by Sahrang, 16 July 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Grendel408]

LRMs are not the issue... it's players who hide behind LRMs like a crutch. There are ways to counter a team (as Panzerbjorn stated) heavy on LRMs when your team doesn't have much, or has them but cannot obtain decent spotting to retain locks on targets. You will notice teams who communicate easier using VOIP (Mumble, TeamSpeak, etc) to be more accurate and coordinated than those without... want to suggest something for PGI/IGP to implement? Have them put the damned VOIP into the game already so people can stop crying about this or that be "OP" when it's really just teammates blowing the match for the rest of the team. Even randoms on a VOIP server will be more coordinated than the average team not on VOIP... because they can communicate easier. LRMs are just a weapon... find the hole in your enemies strategy and exploit it.

Edited by Grendel408, 16 July 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Yep lrms are now looking like some cheats ....
No spread out damage anymore all damage localized in CT whatever i dont die by lrms tonight but some lrms guys steal my kills...

PGI don't test what they nerf or buff? Strange if they did some tests damn they need better arbiters...

Well i suggest to wait next patch and get some balance games before replaying this game until that we will see lots of news lrms PGM boats ahaha

[wanderer]

The only change to LRM's was that they took out the (minimal) splash damage, which is what they mean by LRMs now behaving like LRMs.

The missiles are dealing damage precisely the same as before, location-wise...just not putting an insignificant amount of damage around each impact. If a salvo was heading for your CT (hi, direct-fire + TAG/NARC on the CT shot groupings!) before, it's doing the exact same thing now- but not painting your virgin armor elsewhere that delicate shade of "I tickled you" yellow.

[Grendel408]

Idealsuspect, on 16 July 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Yep lrms are now looking like some cheats ....

That's really funny... LRMs in general, or is it the difference between Clan LRMs and IS LRMs? I see Clan LRMs being able to do more pinpoint damage v. IS LRMs which just smack the **** out of you in one large volley v. a steady stream of Clan LRMs... IS LRMs can act the same way with 6 LRM/5s chainfired... "looking like some cheats" hardly... post some evidence of this before you call a weapon a cheat.

Edited by Grendel408, 16 July 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Quote

Gameplay

• ALL LRMs and StreakSRMs now have the same on collision behavior treatment that the SRMs recently have had.
  
  • LRMs and Streaks will now deal direct pinpoint damage to the component they come in contact with without splashing neighboring components.

When i say it's like a cheat it's coze lrms didnt need real aiming skills... Srms need skills, both weapons haven't to deal direct pinpoint same way ...

One ( srm ) is hard and dangerous for maximal use and give advantage to skilled pilots and theirs team...
Second ( lrm ) is easy and safe for maximal use and give advantage for campers/unskilled pilots and theirs team...

We will see more and more lrms boat, and game's more and more stupids without real teamwork only camping and more camping until lrms ammo depleted.

Ps : it isn't about minimal range clan lrms.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 16 July 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Panzerbjorn]

Sahrang, on 16 July 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Panzerbjorn, u do not think that lrm's prevent the game to evolve? I mean, it's a very commun weapon now (with clans) , that dissuade any team to move. it's what it is designed for, but I think it dissuades too much at the moment

LRMs are part of a strategic evolution in the skill of individual players, yes. First you use them, then you have them used on you, then you adapt and learn how to avoid them, then you get into higher Elo where LRMs are almost never used except in cheese teams who are intentionally trolling and they usually still get rolled by the endgame meta. In the upper Elo, LRMs are virtually non-existent and are replaced almost exclusively by Gauss and ER PPCs. That's the "evolution of gameplay". For any weapon system to be balanced and effective, you need to consider all levels of play by all players - once you get halfway up the Elo ladder LRMs begin to disappear rapidly because against skilled opponents LRMs are virtually non-effective. This is not due to weapon balance, trust me, we all want to WIN games - it's due to skilled players understanding the metagame well enough to know one or more of the plethora of ways to defeat LRMs. There are many paths and they are simple in concept, they just require practice.

[Bigbacon]

Sahrang, on 16 July 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

I think lrm's should start where srm's end (270m)

this is how I have always felt as well but obviously that will never happen now that they've allowed CLRMS 90m+ for damage.

[Bigbacon]

Grendel408, on 16 July 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

LRMs are not the issue... it's players who hide behind LRMs like a crutch.

i don't think ti is players hiding behind them, it is everyone else not doing things as a team to counter them.

Sometimes the MM doesn't help, like you end up on a team with no ECM while the other team has so much of it you can't do much about it.

LRMs are not a problem, they are not a win all strategy weapon but with a good team who will support you so you can support them with LRMs, then they are dangerous only because the whole team is being dangerous.

It is all about teamwork.

Edited by Bigbacon, 16 July 2014 - 05:51 PM.

[Grendel408]

Grendel408, on 16 July 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

LRMs are not the issue... it's players who hide behind LRMs like a crutch. There are ways to counter a team (as Panzerbjorn stated) heavy on LRMs when your team doesn't have much, or has them but cannot obtain decent spotting to retain locks on targets. You will notice teams who communicate easier using VOIP (Mumble, TeamSpeak, etc) to be more accurate and coordinated than those without... want to suggest something for PGI/IGP to implement? Have them put the damned VOIP into the game already so people can stop crying about this or that be "OP" when it's really just teammates blowing the match for the rest of the team. Even randoms on a VOIP server will be more coordinated than the average team not on VOIP... because they can communicate easier. LRMs are just a weapon... find the hole in your enemies strategy and exploit it.

Bigbacon... you're right (as I stated in the removed part of my quoted reply), there are ways to counter LRMs and that's what a good lot of us try to convey to the rest of the masses... sadly... most don't seem to want or know how to read our advice.

[RagingOyster]

Jern, on 16 July 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

...with a press of a button are going to send 100s of points of damage directly to your CT and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
...
... the IS LRM clump which just smacks 70 plus percent of the damage to the CT all at once.

Thanks,

What game are you playing where LRMs are some surgical assassination weapon that instantly cores anyone they hit?
I mean I guess if you stood still and looked directly at the incoming missiles then most of them will hit your CT...

LRMs are easy to use, that's not a debate. They are not, however, OP. If the idea of using cover is so horrible to you then I don't know what to tell you, but using cover has always been a part of BattleTech so don't try to say "oh back in my day we all just ran right at each other across the open plains and fought like men" because BT and MW have never, ever been like that outside of Solaris and Clan trials and whatnot

[Tim East]

Drive a light, move behind rocks, laugh as missiles miss. Lather, rinse, repeat. I soak up so many LRMs that get wasted into the ground, it's ridiculous. If I got a c-bill for every unit of ammo that got launched into the terrain... Well, my Locusts would be printing money like the post-WW1 Weimar Republic.

[Postumus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but LRMs should be doing LESS damage after the patch. Before the patch, each LRM was doing splash damage. If two LRMS landed close to each other, the areas where the splash from each missile overlapped were basically getting damaged twice. Now there is no splash, so this effect doesn't happen. As I recall, this used to be an issue with SRMs as well, but the SRM splash area was nerfed to hell and then elliminated.