157 replies to this topic

[CHH Badkarma]

wow, 4 posts and a member since June and already complaining.....
You should have been around when LRMs were REALLY in fashion. They really are not as bad as they used to be. Not to mention clan LRMs get swatted down easily by ams.
Use cover, play smart. Avoid the rain.
Can not take the heat? Stay out of the cockpit.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 17 July 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Kmieciu]

I tried using LRMs yesterday and did not find them much improved. If anything, they are even easier to dodge or soak. Missiles hitting the ground will not hurt your legs. Missiles hitting your arm will not hurt your side torso.
Overall, they have their uses while PUGing but I still would not take them into an organised tournament.

[Kibble]

I personally think before the patch LRMs were perfect now after patch I feel they are doing too much dmg. Maybe it's just me though.

[Thunder Child]

Postumus, on 16 July 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but LRMs should be doing LESS damage after the patch. Before the patch, each LRM was doing splash damage. If two LRMS landed close to each other, the areas where the splash from each missile overlapped were basically getting damaged twice. Now there is no splash, so this effect doesn't happen. As I recall, this used to be an issue with SRMs as well, but the SRM splash area was nerfed to hell and then elliminated.

I think the reason we may (EVERYONE, PLEASE NOTE, I SAID "MAY", Not ARE) be seeing higher damage returns is because when SRMs had splash, the game was not registering some of the hits. What MAY be happening now, is that the game is registering the full barrage of LRMs, for the same reason that SRMs are now all registering hits. Personally, I believe this is a GOOD thing, because now PGI can balance solid numbers, rather than trying to balance esoterics like Splash Damage on an Atlas, versus a Commando. I have not seen any marked increase in the viability of LRMs in the field, but then, I learnt fairly quickly how to dodge them, to increase my combat survivability.
If anyone can teach me to dodge Gauss/PPC/AC rounds, I will be very grateful (OP PP FLD BS!).

P.S. Usual Disclaimer of not actually using LRMs atm, except for testing purposes (I'm trying to unlock the Elites on my Dakka Whales).

[Storyteller]

Kibble, on 16 July 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

I personally think before the patch LRMs were perfect now after patch I feel they are doing too much dmg. Maybe it's just me though.

That's exactly what I think. And everytime a low skill weapon like LRMs are a bit better than the average, they are widely used in PUG matches, what makes random battles highly annoying at the moment. I tried LRMs myself and every match I get 2-4 easy kills and deal a lot of damage (500-1.100), while mostly standing around and hitting the trigger from a safe distance.

Of course you need a good positioning for bringen LRMs into play, but that's nothing compared to a brawler or sniper. So pls, pls change the LRM settings to what it was before the patch, it felt perfect then. And yes, I do own clan mechs myself.

[HarlekinEO]

I knewed that this would happen, as I readed the patch notes.

I tryed yesterday my Awesome 8R with 2xLRM15 & 2xLRM10. I got 4 kills in total. The enemy dropped quick, I couldnt do more then 2 waves each Mech...

Also, everytime I were droping with anything else then my Uller there were no ECM mechs in my party. Esspecially in my Kintaro 18 and my 8R (SRM Variant) you had huge problems to get into fight, without being slaughtered. Were is the promised space for brawler?
On the otherhand, if I dropped with my Uller. There were mostly 2 more and sometimes even another Raven 3L in my party. Where were they, when they were needed. But without ECM is basicly a loss, nowadays (even before LRM buff). -> Add lobby for PUG (none party) games, so you can see, if there is ecm needed or not!

Edited by HarlekinEO, 17 July 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Panzerbjorn, on 16 July 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Skilled players usually won't fire at targets who are either out of LoS or in an unknown position because it's a waste of ammo if they are in cover. For those of us who play on teams using coms, missile boats ask for hard-locks so teammates provide confirmation that a target is NOT in missile cover of some kind. If you're caught with your pants down like that, you deserve to die. Just locking up targets and firing LRMs randomly may work okay versus unskilled morons, but most players know a thing or two about playing the game and strategy these days.

Skilled player with LRMs and a good team using coms = 70-80% of my LRMs hit and do dmg.
Unskilled "win button" LRMer firing wildly = 20-30% of LRMs hit and do dmg.

Using LRMs effectively is not "easy mode" unless you allow it to be for the unskilled players who are using them. You should have the nerve and the honour to admit when you've made a tactical blunder and exposed yourself to open LRM fire. Using cover is part of the game. Nothing to see here but crybabies.

This. This a LOT.

Mind you, I have not tested using LRM's but they seemed fine from the receiving end to me.

PGI will have numbers, and if this change really did inflate LRM damage they will tweak it down. I doubt it did, but I suppose it IS possible with the change they did. If some missiles were not hitting or not doing damage due to the old method of hitting, then a tweak might be needed.

[Cerlin]

LRMS do not kill me more than other weapons right now. They can be annoying If I am slow or in the open but I do not see the issue to be honest.

[HarlekinEO]

Cerlin, on 17 July 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

LRMS do not kill me more than other weapons right now. They can be annoying If I am slow or in the open but I do not see the issue to be honest.

Its not about how often you are killed by that weapon, more then about ruining the gameplay.
Of course I can avoid them, like using the Uller KFX-D. But do I have fun? No!

Edited by HarlekinEO, 17 July 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[EOD Operator]

HarlekinEO, on 17 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Its not about how often you are killed by that weapon, more then about ruining the gameplay. Of course I can avoid them, like using the Uller KFX-D. But do I have fun? No!

Ruining the gameplay? LRMs are a HUGE part of the BT universe. Name me one novel that didn't feature some LRM equiped mech.

If you don't like it, go back to playing Call of Duty. Or you can wipe the sand out of your lady parts, suck it up, and learn how to deal with it like a man.

[Storyteller]

EOD Operator, on 17 July 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Ruining the gameplay? LRMs are a HUGE part of the BT universe. Name me one novel that didn't feature some LRM equiped mech.

If you don't like it, go back to playing Call of Duty. Or you can wipe the sand out of your lady parts, suck it up, and learn how to deal with it like a man.

When you refer to the BT universe, you should point out that LRMs are not Streak LRMs, wheather in the novels nor in the tabletop. But in MWO (and the other MechWarrior games) they are and though they are much easier to use. LRMs should have their place in the game, especially in the PUG matches, but the should not dominate it, because it's a "low skill" weapon system.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish we could see other peoples mech stats along with build.

I'm so curious about what builds people are running when hating on LRMs

Do they have AMS with overload? probably neither
could they get a 2 or 3 AMS mech or ECM yup, but choose not to.

Are they running a PPC FLD build, if so the irony in that is amazing.

HarlekinEO, on 17 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Its not about how often you are killed by that weapon, more then about ruining the gameplay.
Of course I can avoid them, like using the Uller KFX-D. But do I have fun? No!

Then stay near cover. Sounds to me like someone was Narc'd, tagged or had a UAV spotting them.
Dual PPC + AC/Gauss ruins the gameplay, not LRMs.

AMS+overload vs a clan LRM10 = you take about 2 damage.

If you're complaining about an LRM boat, get up close and personal and they are crippled then.




Edit: and before anyone calls me an LRM spammer, I've got 6000 dmg or less on all clan lrms(with a full clan package) and around 50k with IS Med, and 30k or so with CER ML, CLL, IS LL, AC20, AC5

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 July 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Mazaraz]

The last I checked this is NOT Call of Duty. If you don't want to use tactics and equipment to avoid lrms, you just don't want them to work so you "don't have to cower" then go play Hawken.... Mechwarrior has always been about tactical employment of mechanized units, not running in guns blazing. So now lrms are back to what they used to be, NOT my 3x lrm 15 atlas used to have a 101 point alfa, guess what! It has been 58 for almost 8 months now. I play with a group and we tacticaly and mutualy support eachother. I get that some PUGS may have issues with tactical employment, but don't hate the guys that are smart enough to use a weapon the way it was intended.

[Kjudoon]

All the same faces cheer the "bravery" of the OP to restate a talking point based on absolute fantasy. All the same faces come out to mock it.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

[Ian Grahame]

Panzerbjorn, on 16 July 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Once you get halfway up the Elo ladder LRMs begin to disappear rapidly because against skilled opponents LRMs are virtually non-effective. This is not due to weapon balance, trust me, we all want to WIN games - it's due to skilled players understanding the metagame well enough to know one or more of the plethora of ways to defeat LRMs. There are many paths and they are simple in concept, they just require practice.

This. There are so many LRM counters. If you're getting greased by LRM that often, you are not using cover, staying near ECM, carrying AMS, etc. Sure, sometimes your drop lacks ECM, or you are with noobs who don't include AMS in their loadout. OTOH, *do* you have the anti LRM module, and do you load it consistently? Do you include AMS in your loadouts?

Sometimes the problem is you.

Ever hear some noob QQ "My team sucks! No friggin support!" when the idiot ran out front by himself and got himself greased? Or the evergreen "Player X HAX!!!11!"?

LRM's really seem to be about right. They'll kill you fast if you let them... just like AC or Lasers will.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

LRMs are pretty bad right now. I completely understand the complaints.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I agree that LRM's are crazy good right now, but I don't think it's the amount of damage they do but rather the speed a lot of people are able to lock them and maintain lock long after loosing line of sight! It's rediculas.

I have a DDC with 3 LRM 15's and 2 ERLL I troll around with just because I want to add to the LRM rage. Some nights I can get another DDC with similar build in my group and a missile boat Stalker and then add a few heavys sporting LRMs and we can melt half the enemy before we see them. It's funny to watch the chat rage too.

[Zyllos]

The issue with LRMs at the moment is they "converge" when they reach their intended target. They end up acting like a funnel when technically they should act like a cylinder.

[Kjudoon]

Zyllos, on 17 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

The issue with LRMs at the moment is they "converge" when they reach their intended target. They end up acting like a funnel when technically they should act like a cylinder.

Uhhh... LRMs don't converge. You don't play them or watch them much, do you?

[Sahrang]

Panzerbjorn, on 16 July 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

LRMs are part of a strategic evolution in the skill of individual players, yes. First you use them, then you have them used on you, then you adapt and learn how to avoid them, then you get into higher Elo where LRMs are almost never used except in cheese teams who are intentionally trolling and they usually still get rolled by the endgame meta. In the upper Elo, LRMs are virtually non-existent and are replaced almost exclusively by Gauss and ER PPCs. That's the "evolution of gameplay". For any weapon system to be balanced and effective, you need to consider all levels of play by all players - once you get halfway up the Elo ladder LRMs begin to disappear rapidly because against skilled opponents LRMs are virtually non-effective. This is not due to weapon balance, trust me, we all want to WIN games - it's due to skilled players understanding the metagame well enough to know one or more of the plethora of ways to defeat LRMs. There are many paths and they are simple in concept, they just require practice.

as a relatively new player (1 month old), i found this really helpful:) thank you