157 replies to this topic

[Barkem Squirrel]

Kjudoon, on 17 July 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

There are 4 guidance points where the LRMs adjust in their arc after firing. You can see them if you watch with the details high enough. They make 4 distinct bends. IF a target is still locked, and a big enough direction change is needed, it makes an absolutely SILLY serpentine turn in the air to get back on lock. This is a rendering issue, not a real targeting issue. Not everything you see on the screen is true. By the same token, the streams of 'bullets'' from the AMS launchers arent real but a graphical representation of the radius effect AMS is doing. Its why they can shoot through walls, other mechs... everything without being stopped.

You win some, you lose some.

This is why sometimes you can break locks due to a target being behind cover, then reacquire the locks for the missiles to fall straight down on their heads. This is the difference between someone running an LRM boat and some one that runs LRMs almost all the time.

[Chaosity]

Bigbacon, on 16 July 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Sometimes the MM doesn't help, like you end up on a team with no ECM while the other team has so much of it you can't do much about it.

Yeah... and here's why. There are over 175 variants. 70.9% can mount LRMs. Only 3.3% can mount ECM, and you wanna be pilots think its fair? NOT!

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

For once I wish they would bring LRM's up to full speed, full flight, full loadouts, and full damage.

And just show all these people exactly what OP is.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 18 July 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Gents.

Two things happen anytime pgi makes any change to lrms (buff or nerf).

1. Some people scream to the heavens that lrms are op.

2. A million idiots listen and start using them in game.



During times like these the solution it's simple. Jump in your ecm mechs and go hunting. Remind the sillies the reasons lrms will never be competitive.

[AC]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 18 July 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

For once I wish they would bring LRM's up to full speed, full flight, full loadouts, and full damage.

And just show all these people exactly what OP is.

umm... stop talking out your ass. Each LRM already does more damage than they should. In Table top each missile did 1 damage.

[Thunder Child]

EVERYTHING in game does more damage than it should. That happened when PGI changed the turn time from 10secs to 4 secs (or is it 3, I can never remember). It's why they had to double the armour.

If things worked as they did in Tabletop, we'd either have PPCs that would deal 10 Damage ever 10 Seconds, or 4 damage every 4 seconds, etc. I won't start running numbers, because I can't remember them accurately, but there was a thread that explained just how under-performing LRMs are compared to every other weapon in the game. The simple fact is that what makes LRMs SEEM OP is there ability to be fired at a shared target. And before anyone goes silly and says, "Oh look, you have Free C3", that is incorrect. C3 was used to improve the accuracy of ALL weapons by using targeting info from the closest unit. For example, an AC/20 firing at 9 hexes can use the Locust spotting for it at 2 Hexes.

Battlemech basic sensors have always been able to communicate targeting info to allied units. Look up the rules in the Master Compendium some time. Indirect Fire did not Need TAG, merely someone to spot for them. It was then the Spotters Gunnery modifiers used, as well as the Firers. We have that now (or maybe you haven't noticed how locks come and go all the time during a match as the Spotter has to dodge and weave?)

I am not saying that LRMs don't need an adjustment. The larger Spread during Indirect Fire is STILL the best solution I've seen thus far. But they should in no way be "Nerfed" as the vocal doomsayers demand, because otherwise the LRM will return to what it was back in the days of the 0.8 damage Missile.... Something to be removed from your mech as fast as possible.

[Bigbacon]

or maybe people need to start playing differently. LRMs are easily countered a lot of ways but everyone just wants to pew pew pew with no thought put into what they do.

think about how most of the maps get played, both teams try to get to one area of map. One team usually gets there first, everyone stands around and then one team gets stuck in the open, and LRMs rain.

Also, since most people play slow heavies and assaults and don't use 95% of what the maps have to offer, you end up in places of the map where if someone gets lock, LRMs rain and you have no where to go.

No one wants to use other portions of the maps that allow for more movement in and out of cover while you advance or flank on the enemy. People always complain about maps like terra therma yet they all still rush center, stand there, and LRMs are easy to get you with. There are so many tall mountains all over the place teams could use but you sit in the open in the bowls or the center.

Again, they just end up in the open and if someone gets lock, LRMs rain with no to little chance for the big slow boys to get out of the way.

ECM mechs usually run off by themselves leaving everyone else with no cover, a lot of people won't switch their ECM into counter mode to help out as well.

LRMs aren't OP or a real problem, players are.

[DeathlyEyes]

Most boring games ever. I just it in the back and spam mouse button 3. No skill at all.

[Noesis]

LRMs need to remain as a viable weapon system regardless of applied skill to ensure we dont have a dominance with any one form of role or weapon system. Without LRMs remaining equally effective as other weapon systems like direct fire support weapons MWO would revert to sniper warrior online.

There are more than sufficent techniques and tools to avoid LRM fire effects. The latrest nerf to the LRM systems being quite significant with the use of radar deprevation modules for the direct fire support roles. This also made the spotter role more significant for partnership or team based play with E-war tools designed to support LRMs however but did make the idea of LRM use less effective.

[AC]

Thunder Child, on 18 July 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

EVERYTHING in game does more damage than it should. That happened when PGI changed the turn time from 10secs to 4 secs (or is it 3, I can never remember). It's why they had to double the armour.

If things worked as they did in Tabletop, we'd either have PPCs that would deal 10 Damage ever 10 Seconds, or 4 damage every 4 seconds, etc. I won't start running numbers, because I can't remember them accurately, but there was a thread that explained just how under-performing LRMs are compared to every other weapon in the game. The simple fact is that what makes LRMs SEEM OP is there ability to be fired at a shared target. And before anyone goes silly and says, "Oh look, you have Free C3", that is incorrect. C3 was used to improve the accuracy of ALL weapons by using targeting info from the closest unit. For example, an AC/20 firing at 9 hexes can use the Locust spotting for it at 2 Hexes.

Battlemech basic sensors have always been able to communicate targeting info to allied units. Look up the rules in the Master Compendium some time. Indirect Fire did not Need TAG, merely someone to spot for them. It was then the Spotters Gunnery modifiers used, as well as the Firers. We have that now (or maybe you haven't noticed how locks come and go all the time during a match as the Spotter has to dodge and weave?)

I am not saying that LRMs don't need an adjustment. The larger Spread during Indirect Fire is STILL the best solution I've seen thus far. But they should in no way be "Nerfed" as the vocal doomsayers demand, because otherwise the LRM will return to what it was back in the days of the 0.8 damage Missile.... Something to be removed from your mech as fast as possible.

Your right! What balanced LRM's in previous versions of MW is that it was 1 attacker on 1 target (generally). They were easier to balance. Now we have the possibility of (Theoretically) 12 attackers on 1 target. Although the most I have every seen in game is 6 mechs on 1 target. That target melts like an ice cube in the Sahara....

The question becomes, how do you simultaneously balance LRM's so they are good in 1 vs 1 situations but not overpowered in multiple attackers on 1 target situations. Indirect fire is what makes LRM's unbalanced right now IMO.

[Kjudoon]

Barkem Squirrel, on 18 July 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

This is why sometimes you can break locks due to a target being behind cover, then reacquire the locks for the missiles to fall straight down on their heads. This is the difference between someone running an LRM boat and some one that runs LRMs almost all the time.

Yep! I know what ticks me off, and use it against those who try to get me. Oh yeah. It's only when I screw up, choose a bad line or get caught napping to LRMs get me in mechs that dont break 80 and carry no AMS (I like being sneaky).

[Kjudoon]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 18 July 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

Most boring games ever. I just it in the back and spam mouse button 3. No skill at all.

If this is the case, you're LuRMing wrong then. Screen shots to show how awesome you do at this too?

Then again, like an artillery unit, don't expect to get an adrenaline rush unless things go horribly wrong. THEN you'll get all the adrenaline you need for a short time till you're killed.

Bigbacon, on 18 July 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

or maybe people need to start playing differently. LRMs are easily countered a lot of ways but everyone just wants to pew pew pew with no thought put into what they do.

think about how most of the maps get played, both teams try to get to one area of map. One team usually gets there first, everyone stands around and then one team gets stuck in the open, and LRMs rain.

Also, since most people play slow heavies and assaults and don't use 95% of what the maps have to offer, you end up in places of the map where if someone gets lock, LRMs rain and you have no where to go.

No one wants to use other portions of the maps that allow for more movement in and out of cover while you advance or flank on the enemy. People always complain about maps like terra therma yet they all still rush center, stand there, and LRMs are easy to get you with. There are so many tall mountains all over the place teams could use but you sit in the open in the bowls or the center.

Again, they just end up in the open and if someone gets lock, LRMs rain with no to little chance for the big slow boys to get out of the way.

ECM mechs usually run off by themselves leaving everyone else with no cover, a lot of people won't switch their ECM into counter mode to help out as well.

LRMs aren't OP or a real problem, players are.

Curse you stupid logical outcome! How dare causality affect me!!!

[Jordan Kell]

I am a fan of lrms. However the new dmg mods are stupid. I was piloting a DW, and my CT was slightly yellow. I was targeted by 2 missile mechs and my ct disappeared in 2 salvos. There was minor dmg to my other torsos and arms, however I would bet that 95% of the damage went to my CT. That is just plain STUPID! Fix them PLEASE!

[Thunder Child]

To be fair, the DW has a CT the size of a small mountain, on top of a larger mountain, attached to the front of a Jumbo Jet. Mine seems to be magnetic, as well, as it attracts Ferrous Slugs and Charged Particles like nobodies business. Funnily enough, LRMs seem to favour my Daishis Legs.

[Yanlowen Cage]

2 ams 6000 rounds burned thru in under 2 minutes. Nuff said. and no I wasn't standing still. and I was trying to hide under cover. issue? clan t-wolves flanking and lurming you from the sides and dire wolves lurming down the center. Yes t-wolves can move fast enuff to move to you sides and prevent you from having any cover from lurms. and for the eventually reply. from three sides.

[Kjudoon]

Jordan Kell, on 19 July 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

I am a fan of lrms. However the new dmg mods are stupid. I was piloting a DW, and my CT was slightly yellow. I was targeted by 2 missile mechs and my ct disappeared in 2 salvos. There was minor dmg to my other torsos and arms, however I would bet that 95% of the damage went to my CT. That is just plain STUPID! Fix them PLEASE!

you obviously were hit by something other than LRMs.

[Greyboots]

GamerGirlGundam, on 15 July 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

after missiles changes LRMs in general are now too powerful

this makes the game either extremely boring and one dimensional or almost unplayable

I disagree. I play a couple mechs that are LRM heavy and my average damage and kill count have both gone down because of this patch. On my other mechs I'm now also more willing to risk short runs through the open where LRMs might rain down on me.

In response I've now have no LRM boats in favour of mixed setups (Jager and Battlemaster). These setups still incorporate LRMs but use a more well-rounded setup and, in general, I notice that LRM boats aren't placing as highly on the damage or kill charts as they were before the match.

The only LRMs that are OP at the moment are pretty much Clan ones but that's because they can fit on plenty of LRMs as well as hefty direct fire weapons.

What I have noticed is that which mechs are most susceptible to LRMs has changed. Some are now taking more of a beating from them while a few are taking less of a beating so I can certainly understand why some people are noticing a distinct change while others are thinking the change was for the better.

I also think that the advent of clan mechs being so mobile is forcing many LRM players into direct-fire scenarios instead of just hiding and throwing LRMs through indirect fire. This means that Artemis is playing a much bigger role than it used to on average. This, however, is the way it is supposed to be and the better LRM players always sought visual contact to make Artemis work to their advantage. It's just causing a bit of a shift in the way that LRMs are being utilised within the game.

Jern, on 16 July 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

I really think the streaming effect should be considered for all LRMs.

OMG yes please! I'll go back to LRM boating with IS mechs.

[color=#959595]

Quote

We already have a game that we like very much it is called "Battletech" and LRMs mechs are not supposed to be any more dangerous than any other weapon and should not be insta lock, insta death, newb tubes

[/color]

As opposed to assault cheeze builds that drill out mechs in 2 or 3 alphas? Last I checked BT involved rolling dice for random hit locations and weapon convergeance either didn't exist OR involved a hefty to hit penalty for called shots after it was incluced.

As much as you want it to be this is not, and will never be, battletech. If you want battletech then lobby for all weapons to be hitscan weapons. Get that and I'll be happy to feel sorry for your Assault Vs LRM woes.

[Greyboots]

Kjudoon, on 19 July 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

you obviously were hit by something other than LRMs.

Nah, it's one of the drawbacks of DWs. Big CT. 2 assault LRM boats group firing could do it. The truth of the matter is that depending on the launchers you use it can be a lot easier to kill assaults with LRMs than anything smaller and faster. Some assault players just want to keep playing their assaults with no drawbacks is all.

It's not going to change no matter how long they talk about it because the simple fact is that LRMs are the only thing holding assault cheese builds in check at the moment.

[Kjudoon]

Greyboots, on 19 July 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Nah, it's one of the drawbacks of DWs. Big CT. 2 assault LRM boats group firing could do it. The truth of the matter is that depending on the launchers you use it can be a lot easier to kill assaults with LRMs than anything smaller and faster. Some assault players just want to keep playing their assaults with no drawbacks is all.

It's not going to change no matter how long they talk about it because the simple fact is that LRMs are the only thing holding assault cheese builds in check at the moment.

Well, I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but insta death from 2 missiles is unheard of, particularly for clan mechs. You will know what weapons hit you but not how many in your death screen nor how much damage it did... (PGI needs to fix this). Then you'll know if LRMs are to blame or if someone snuck up behind you and blasted you with a double gauss or something.

[Greyboots]

Kjudoon, on 19 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Well, I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but insta death from 2 missiles is unheard of, particularly for clan mechs. You will know what weapons hit you but not how many in your death screen nor how much damage it did... (PGI needs to fix this). .

Well, agreed, but insta death from 120 missiles sort of isn't.

Sometimes we forget that not everyone is an expert and simple mistakes are made by them every day. Things like not running enough armour so you can pack in the firepower or putting ammo in the torsos.

All it takes is to breach armour and get a couple unlucky rolls and "killed by ammo explosion" occurs for the newbies. Especially if you get a position behind them and their rear armour is very light. I once hit a pristine atlas in the back with a single LRM 40 salvo (4 x LRM 10) and it fell over so...