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Lrm Are Op Now Please Nerf

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#121 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:20 AM

View PostWolfways, on 22 July 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

Well i meant with speed tweak, not that it makes much difference. Claiming that slow mechs die to LRM's is just wrong. Bad pilots die to LRM's.


Oh well that clarifies things a bit. Though yes I agree that it is more the pilot than the lrms. That is why I mentioned using traing mode to learn routes. Also sometimes it is just a matter of waiting for the right moment to move. Most lrm pilots tend to tunnel vision on whatever they are trying shoot and will not notice 2 or 3 mechs sneaking around to chew their sides and back up.

Edited by Strypewolf, 22 July 2014 - 07:22 AM.


#122 Bigbacon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

I'll add this, the new CLRM minimum damage thing is balancing crap.

it isn't alot of damage but when you get in the face of a clan LRM boat, they just pound you around and light mechs are just dead no matter what. IS LRM boats are out classed then up close, they don't have a chance to defend themselves well if they get caught off guard. Clans can.

It mgiht be a TT thing, but for game balance it is junk.

#123 Kjudoon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:41 AM

If we're going to put training wheels on mechs, we may as well start introducing fixed mech loadouts and tiers.

NO! NO! It was Sarcasm PGI! Get away from that suggestion! Don't do it!!!! NO! Bad programmer! Bad...

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#124 Tim East

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:47 AM

View PostGreyboots, on 19 July 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

As opposed to assault cheeze builds that drill out mechs in 2 or 3 alphas? Last I checked BT involved rolling dice for random hit locations and weapon convergeance either didn't exist OR involved a hefty to hit penalty for called shots after it was incluced.

And it required the clan targeting computer. Imagine the hate if only clanners with TCs could aim at specific components deliberately.

#125 Kjudoon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:09 AM

View PostTim East, on 22 July 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

And it required the clan targeting computer. Imagine the hate if only clanners with TCs could aim at specific components deliberately.


I'd like to have the same ability as a missile turret. Yep. I would. No minimum range AND can target specific parts? Who wouldn't? Ohhh that's right, the guy you're shooting.

#126 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:16 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 22 July 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:


I'd like to have the same ability as a missile turret. Yep. I would. No minimum range AND can target specific parts? Who wouldn't? Ohhh that's right, the guy you're shooting.


For all their bugs. Turrets won't fire lrms at close range. They'll use their dual lasers instead.

#127 Kjudoon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:32 AM

View PostStrypewolf, on 22 July 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

For all their bugs. Turrets won't fire lrms at close range. They'll use their dual lasers instead.

Not from what I've observed. There are 3 LRM turrets, 3 laser turrets on most maps. The LRMs can engage up to 1000m out, and have no minimum range. I learned that by trying to get inside their range and continued to be shot and damaged by the turrent I was viewing by LRMs. It does not have lasers to switch over to. By the same token, the laser turrets do not have missiles in which to engage when you are out beyond their range. The LRMs will also hit almost exclusively the most damaged part on your mech.

#128 Fastwind

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:39 AM

LRM's are absolutely perfect.
NOT OP.

#129 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 22 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Not from what I've observed. There are 3 LRM turrets, 3 laser turrets on most maps. The LRMs can engage up to 1000m out, and have no minimum range. I learned that by trying to get inside their range and continued to be shot and damaged by the turrent I was viewing by LRMs. It does not have lasers to switch over to. By the same token, the laser turrets do not have missiles in which to engage when you are out beyond their range. The LRMs will also hit almost exclusively the most damaged part on your mech.


Really? I know I have seen the same turret switch from lrms to lasers when I got close. Not sure on the latter though, turret lrms always seem to try for my CT but I twist from those. Lasers do favor legs but I attribute this to height difference. If you're on the same level as the turret, it fires straight ahead in your direction

Edited by Strypewolf, 22 July 2014 - 12:39 PM.


#130 Panzerbjorn

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

View PostWraithlord77, on 22 July 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

One thing i dont fully agree with is the clan lrms doing damage at srm range's give them a module for a little extra range yea but doing damage at srm range is a bit much imo.


You realize that below minimum range Clan LRMs drop SHARPLY in damage output, right? At 90m they only do 28% normal damage. They already only do half the damage of SRMs. I think PGI's choice to sharply curve the damage down was the balanced choice, even if it violates lore.

#131 VonRarthasKon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:29 PM

As a new player to MWO but an old Tabletop player I have to say that LRMS seem a bit strong not neccesarily due to damage being too high. Instead what I see is the reliable combined firepower multiple mechs put out from long distances.

iirc, LRMS on TT would hit at a random rate in 5 pt increments to different locations. The average rate was basically around 60-70% of the potential damage of the salvo. This meant that a LRM 20 could generally be counted on to hit for 12-16 damage spread out across locations in 5pt increments.
I understood this was a way to simulate the inaccuracy of firing salvos across great distances.

Again I am new to the online mechanics but from what I have read PGI has done a great job of translating that damage formula into the combat system.

The problem occurs when it seems that C3 computers are essentially standard on all mechs. For those that dont know what I mean, the C3 computer allowed multiple mechs in a lance or mutiple lances to feed off other mechs target information. Currently because of this use of the targeting system 2-3 LRM equiped mechs can easily bring 100+ pts of damage to bear at extreme ranges with accuracy onto a single mech in only 1 salvo. Even without the firing mechs having solid LoS.

I have seen Dire Wolves and Atlas break cover for just a moment and be obliterated in a few seconds by this type of combined fire. I like the team play reward this encourages but I have noticed the tactics shift recently to having ECM nearby or just hang it up.
Comparing these tactics to fantasy RPGs and you can see that having an ECM equiped mech is like having a healer in your group. They are almost mandatory in order to survive and thus have more value than most short ranged damage dealing classes.

Now obviously some maps are much more difficult to take advantage of LRM team play. I have been running the Jagers so I love me some city maps but other more open field maps make me cringe at the inevitable warning "INCOMING MISSLE". Light and mediums can flank the LRM boats as well so hopefully we'll see more pilots go that route. It's a ballsy line considering when you are spotted you are in a "duck vs the Robertsons" scenario.

I look forward to the meta shifting to compensate for the LRM spam without tweaks on the part of the developer but I'm sure they are keeing a close eye on things.

I may have rambled but its my 2 cents as a newb who likes to brawl in an LRM world.

#132 Bad Andy

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:39 PM

the cockpit shake from clan LRM's is bullshit

#133 CGB Behemoth

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:54 PM

In serious games no one uses LRM, course it is absolutely useful weapon.

#134 Galenit

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:40 AM

View PostBehemothk, on 22 July 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

serious games


If i ever start to take a game serious, its time to change something in my life.


About lrms:

Yesterday a dualgauss jager moaned about my lrms and my noskill,
i had only 4x5 (ripplefired) with tag and 2 large lasers and he stand there and let me hit him until his torso was yellow hitting me one time with his dual gauss.
Short after he come over the ridge and meet my 2 large and 2 medium lasers and died.
He had no ams, his friends around him also not.

Behaving like a claypidgeon, taking the biggest guns but no ams and then coming to the forum and crying for nerfs ...

#135 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:14 AM

I have been seeing a lot of dual gauss jagers as of late. I really do not see the appeal as any dps style loadout is going rip you in half. Like ripple fired lrms, or in my case, lasers and a LB-X.

#136 Erdbeermarmeladentoastbrot

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:58 AM

What do you think bout giving us some Medium or Heavy Mechs with the ability of ecm. Or would it be to hard to put that thing into anther mech then Atlas DDC and Lights ? Maybe it would not be pretty balanced and LRM would start crying cause to much ecm is on the Battlefield.

At least atm. there are only 9% of mechs Lights (class with the ecm). The assault places are filled with Direwolfes and Warhawks.
I kinda dont wanna be forced to Play an ecm light to survive lrm hell. Ist becoming boring playing such lights after 1-2 matches.

#137 Kjudoon

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

View PostBad Andy, on 22 July 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

the cockpit shake from clan LRM's is bull

You're right, it should be greater than ACs. An explosive charge should be more powerful than a chunk of dead metal.

View PostBehemothk, on 22 July 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

In serious games no one uses LRM, course it is absolutely useful weapon.

Yes, because PGI nerfed it due to those "serious gamers" eternal whining about 'no skill n00bz' ruining their good time taking advantage of 'superior' equipment that wasn't so superior but was the style of game they wanted to play (aka SHOOTYOOINDAFASERAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!) and indirect fire plus guidance meant they couldn't see the face of the guy killing them and so it had to be stopped no matter how stupidly.

Edited by Kjudoon, 23 July 2014 - 09:16 AM.


#138 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:44 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 23 July 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

You're right, it should be greater than ACs. An explosive charge should be more powerful than a chunk of dead metal.


Yes, because PGI nerfed it due to those "serious gamers" eternal whining about 'no skill n00bz' ruining their good time taking advantage of 'superior' equipment that wasn't so superior but was the style of game they wanted to play (aka SHOOTYOOINDAFASERAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!) and indirect fire plus guidance meant they couldn't see the face of the guy killing them and so it had to be stopped no matter how stupidly.


Did you even think about your post before you wrote it?

Let's see here. First, autocannons fire HEAP rounds. That's High Explosive Armor Piercing for those that haven't heard of that. Those are hitting you at a MUCH higher velocity than any lrm. Only guass rifles fire inert slugs which is why guass ammo doesn't explode, fancy that.

Okay now second, they haven't been nerfed and you should be glad they don't work as per TT rules where you would be lucky if 50% of them hit. The reason they don't exist at the higher elos is because the skilled players know how to gut silly lrm boats. So yes you could say a good number of lrm boat pilots are no skill noobs driving their own coffin waiting to happen.

Edited by Strypewolf, 23 July 2014 - 09:47 AM.


#139 Kjudoon

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:58 AM

View PostStrypewolf, on 23 July 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Did you even think about your post before you wrote it?

Let's see here. First, autocannons fire HEAP rounds. That's High Explosive Armor Piercing for those that haven't heard of that. Those are hitting you at a MUCH higher velocity than any lrm. Only guass rifles fire inert slugs which is why guass ammo doesn't explode, fancy that.

Okay now second, they haven't been nerfed and you should be glad they don't work as per TT rules where you would be lucky if 50% of them hit. The reason they don't exist at the higher elos is because the skilled players know how to gut silly lrm boats. So yes you could say a good number of lrm boat pilots are no skill noobs driving their own coffin waiting to happen.

Depends on which book you use. Sarna says HEAP, other books say Depleted Uranium Penetrators. Doesn't matter, PGI chucked out lore a while back for convenience. Ergo, I'm mocking the whole nerf LRM argument through lore (DU versus HEAP) and what really happened (Whiny little tryhard esportos).

What's really funny is how worthless a HEAP round would really be. HEAP stands for High Explosive Anti Personnel. Means it's great for killing soft targets like wood framed houses, unarmored vehicles and people but suck against armored targets. So this begs the question how such a worthless round would be used versus a battlemech and why it can do so much damage as compared to missile weapons with probably superior warheads, doesn't it?

Of course we're having a slapfight over handwavium here and it's not getting changed by PGI soon if ever because as they have stated about LRMs in threads... and I paraphrase.... 'They're working as intended'.

BTW, in MWO less than 35% of the missiles hit on average. I'd call that worse odds than TT, so I'll say 'Yes, please!' to getting TT hit concentrations!

Edited by Kjudoon, 23 July 2014 - 09:58 AM.


#140 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:24 AM

If that acronym stood for what you say it does. There would be no use for machine guns in battle tech. Machine guns were designed for anti personnel / anti elemental and shouldn't do squat against a mech. If you're wanting to play on technicalities here.

Also only 35% barring the mech going into cover/ams/ecm that is sorely inaccurate. If you don't believe me, go into a training ground and fire at targets there. 100% of those missiles will hit. I know because I have tested it.

Edited by Strypewolf, 23 July 2014 - 10:25 AM.






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