157 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

LRMs are just really efficient in what they provide.

Their shots need to miss more, even with locks all the way to get target. I would almost say roughly 10% to 50% of the missiles need to miss when locked. Basically, this just means they need to spread more and not "converge" when they get close to the target. The only thing that should be reducing the amount of misses for LRMs is Artemis IV.

You can easily see this with large LRM swarms against small targets. Shoot an IS LRM/20 at a Light mech in the training grounds. When the swarm gets close to the Light mech, the swarm tightens up. This should not be happening.

Secondly, I think the cooldown on all LRM launchers needs to go way up. I would start with a 7.0s CD for LRM/5s, 8.5s CD for LRM/10s, 10.0s CD for LRM/15s, and 12.0s CD for LRM/20s. This would keep the DPS of missiles down so that once you get NARC'ed or TAG'ed, you just don't take a constant barrage of LRMs that never ends.

To balance out this change, I would make LRMs maintain locks through the entire life time of a swarm of LRMs once they are fired. Meaning if you got a lock when fired, you don't have to maintain a lock on the target for LRMs to continue homing in. I would also greatly increase their speed so they will reach the target faster. This will also allow for better dumb firing in ECM situations. Maybe to the same speed as SRMs, so 300m/s.

Also, in light of that change, I would up the DPS of AMS to being it back inline to it's current performance. Somewhere around 6.0 DPS would do the job.

The way I feel, the major issue with LRMs right now is that once a single person sees you, the entire team just blasts you to kingdom come. There has to be some reprieve from the LRM spam in that a single mech only will be firing their salvo once at you for a little bit so that you can react.

Edited by Zyllos, 19 July 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

I think a good solution is to limit the maneuverability of the LRMs. This will make them more dodgeable, bringing additional skill into the equation to limit damage (which is a good thing for the depth of game play imo), and prevent the weird legging behavior we've been discussing in the other thread here:

http://mwomercs.com/...imberwolf-legs/

[Celtic Warrior]

I'm a little late to this thread but the LRM's now just keep everyone pinned down and ducking for cover. It's taken alot of the movement and brawling out of the game. It's now turned into a peak shoot and hide much like many of the console games. Yes you can use ECM and have AMS but AMS runs out quick so it only works for the first few salvos.

[Yanlowen Cage]

yeah

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 20 July 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[NetherlightWolf]

I agree that other than the spread, lrms are okay. I normally run a dire wolf that runs an hax speed of 53.5km/h (sarcasm intended). I am able to find cover when needed. Training mode is there for a reason. Use it to learn map terrain and plan routes. Also you know what I do to all these boaters? I remind them just how squishy their juicy side torsos are by carving their launchers out with guass and laser fire.

Edited by Strypewolf, 21 July 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

HarlekinEO, on 17 July 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

Please do me a favour and stop playing stupid. Im playing as long as you and I know about the game.

What on earth are you talking about, every time I hear bitching about LRMs in game it's a guy with NO ams or wandering off solo. Why aren't you saying ECM is OP, it can block LRMs for 12 people.

Also if you're going to accuse me of playing stupid, at least grammar check what you're saying.

[Mobile Ordnance Platform]

recently have been seeing donuts everywhere... donut assaults being focused fire by lrms which is really wrong , it should be the other way round with CT the last thing to go

lrms should do reduced damage to CT and increased damage to components as intended
missile warheads explode around material, they are not armor piercing HEAT rounds

how about a stronger movement modifier then , increase the damage spread alot more and damage reduction in ratio to the speed percentage all of which are calculated in ratio to tonnage/mechsize

that way we still punish people who wont move to cover when receiving ample missile warning, punish slow mechs going off by themselves etc

but any attempt by non tagged non narced mechs to move 60kms+ should reduce lrm damage and spread by a larger margin than it is now, and lights travelling at not even max speed should take very reduced damage

just make it more dynamic than it is now with the potential damage very high but the applied damage lower than it is now, with more reward for making a effort to avoid and more reward for making the effort to apply

counter ecm'd mechs while in a friendly ecm bubble can receive more damage via reduced spread as a reward to the player who bothered to counter

[GrizzlyViking]

I have been using LRMs since the beginning of closed beta and have seen them go through many changes...good and bad. Based on my experience I think that Clan LRMs have better hit detection than IS LRMs. It may be, because they are streaming, it allows more hits to to register than IS LRMs, which come in clumps. As for IS LRMs, they are doing about the same damage as they were before the patch.

On another note, I have noticed Clan LRMs hitting rear torsos when running directly forward into the missile stream. This should be investigated more.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 21 July 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

If you guys die more than 1 out of 10 times to LRMs, you're doing it wrong...very wrong. That's about the nicest way I can put it.

[Wolfways]

HarlekinEO, on 17 July 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Its not about how often you are killed by that weapon, more then about ruining the gameplay.
Of course I can avoid them, like using the Uller KFX-D. But do I have fun? No!

Using ECM is not avoiding LRM's it's countering them. You can avoid LRM's by using cover in any mech.

[Wolfways]

RogueLdr, on 18 July 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I want to comment on the often bandied about "anti LRM " tactic of "L2P and get to cover."
How many times have we heard this spouted again and again in this forum?

Let me say this, in a light or even a fast medium, yes, most times you can avoid LRMs fairly easily, assumeing you're not in some really wide open spot or narced; where this argument falls apart is in slow mechs.

Are you talking about mechs moving slower than 53kph (if there are any)? If not then you are talking rubbish as my Stalker moves at 53kph and i have no trouble with LRM's, using no counters other than cover....and i never "hide".

[Wolfways]

Maybe indirect-fire should just be removed under mid-ELO. That should keep most of the people in this thread happy.

[GonaDie]

Wolfways, on 21 July 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Maybe indirect-fire should just be removed under mid-ELO. That should keep most of the people in this thread happy.

Nah.People will always find something to whine about.

[L A V A]

Noesis, on 18 July 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

The latrest nerf to the LRM systems being quite significant with the use of radar deprevation modules for the direct fire support roles.

If it was direct fire then the radar deprivation module would have no effect.

The fact that one has to carry the radar deprivation module (especially for lights) speaks volumes about how far PGI is willing to help the LRM crowd at the expense of everyone else. It is essentially a counter to the Advanced Target Decay module.

Breaking line of sight (without any indirect targeting such as tag), should break any LRM lock. But the developers have decided to introduce modules and then counter modules. Such is the game, we take it or leave it.

But the final terminal maneuvers which LRMS exhibit... up to 90 degree turns to enable hits, puts it in a class we call Streaks but more precisely Streaks on steroids. An LRM turning 90 degrees in the last 2 seconds of its flight to enable a hit would require more the 100 g's. That is utterly fantastic and physically impossible.

There was a time when a light could actually jump out of the way of LRMs. This is very similar to fighter planes making last second evasive maneuvers which a SAM missile was unable to cope with.

The terminal maneuvers of LRMs has gone way past believability into the realm of fantasy.

Time to change that.

[NetherlightWolf]

Wolfways, on 21 July 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Are you talking about mechs moving slower than 53kph (if there are any)? If not then you are talking rubbish as my Stalker moves at 53kph and i have no trouble with LRM's, using no counters other than cover....and i never "hide".

A Dire Wolf without speed tweak only goes 48.3 km/h. A liittle too slow imho but also highlanders with just the stock engine moves < 50 km/h. So there is a few. Not many, but a few.

Edited by Strypewolf, 22 July 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[Wolfways]

Strypewolf, on 22 July 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

A Dire Wolf without speed tweak only goes 48.3 km/h. A liittle too slow imho but also highlanders with just the stock engine moves < 50 km/h. So there is a few. Not many, but a few.

Well i meant with speed tweak, not that it makes much difference. Claiming that slow mechs die to LRM's is just wrong. Bad pilots die to LRM's.

[Masterzinja]

My 4 man runs each with an ams, and we always have an ecm kitfox with 3 ams and the ams overload. We can literally wipe out whole streams of lrms the few times they get through the ecm. If more puggers chose to run ams and actually stick together, this wouldn't be an issue. If you don't like it, then use what the game provides to counter it instead of trying to cram every last ton of offensive weaponry into each build you run.

[Izzob]

After the clan war patch came out I found I was dying more. So I figured what with all the LRM's about the best platform to build on was the D-DC atlas for ECM and with missiles all over the place I figured if you can't beat them join them so put the build bellow together and ran a 965dmg score (can link a screenshot if needed) on its first run. So till things change this is your best bet.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b0d4b85d56b8942

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I converted my DDC to a Missile boat with 3 LRM 15's and 2 ERLL with 2000+ ammo. This game is horrid....

[Wraithlord77]

im not a big lover of lrms but they are the games arty i use them to strip armor so others or myself can move in and get the kill ,i have 1 main missile boat my DWF-A (2 lrm15 with 1500lrms) and ive seen its LRM damage drop from 1k+ a match before the patch to between 250 and 500 after , i do more damage with my erLL's or Lpulse's , but what i have noticed is more pugs running out into the open and getting spammed or they just charge of towards the other team and completely ignore cover. Maybe a change of tactic is needed more so than cry'n about op lrms, i tend to hang back and wait a bit not so much as to spamm my lrms but to let the other team spam theirs and wast them (i use cover)when i feel they have used up most of their lrms then i push(fire ,cover and manuver) and ECM is your friend . One thing i dont fully agree with is the clan lrms doing damage at srm range's give them a module for a little extra range yea but doing damage at srm range is a bit much imo.