213 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

That's because, at this point, everyone has found Radar Deprivation module which is far more effective vs a horde of LRMs.

Get the missile incoming warning, you dash back to cover. But if you do not react quick enough, or your mech is too slow, without that module nearly ALL of the volley will find you even if you do get behind cover with a second or so to spare. With the module? Nearly ALL miss.

If you get caught completely out in the open? The module won't do you squat. Whereas the AMS will shoot down maybe 5-ish missiles from a IS rack, or 10-ish missiles from a Clan rack ... which when you figure you probably have no less than FIFTY in a volley heading to you, really doesn't make much difference. Plus that and the fact you don't have to waste tonnage and space carrying a piece of equipment and its explosive ammo seals the deal.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 16 July 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Sure, I don't care. If at the same time you give the Clan LRMs the ability to fire in large clusters like IS LRMs do.

You do realize that AMS is EXTRA brutal to Clan LRMs if your entire team is running AMS right?

But of course, NO ONE FREAKING MOUNTS AMS.

[Ph30nix]

Ph30nix, on 16 July 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

gonna have to take a stroll in an LRM90 A1 later i guess

oh crap i forgot IS doesnt have the no minimum range lol have to settle for my LRM80 summoner

[Mcgral18]

topgun505, on 16 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

That's because, at this point, everyone has found Radar Deprivation module which is far more effective vs a horde of LRMs.

Get the missile incoming warning, you dash back to cover. But if you do not react quick enough, or your mech is too slow, without that module nearly ALL of the volley will find you even if you do get behind cover with a second or so to spare. With the module? Nearly ALL miss.

If you get caught completely out in the open? The module won't do you squat. Whereas the AMS will shoot down maybe 5-ish missiles from a IS rack, or 10-ish missiles from a Clan rack ... which when you figure you probably have no less than FIFTY in a volley heading to you, really doesn't make much difference. Plus that and the fact you don't have to waste tonnage and space carrying a piece of equipment and its explosive ammo seals the deal.

For the explosive ammo thing, it only explodes for 0.024 damage per round, or 24 damage for 1000 rounds.

A pair of AMS will remove 30 cLRMs, though it might have been with one of the modules.

[Oni Ralas]

tl;dr

OP is made because out of the 9000 ways to counter LRMs (that no other weapon suffers from), he managed to die from them. Therefore, they are OP.

[Sandpit]

IS ACs are no skill weapons. Any scrub can take out enemy mechs when they can do pinpoint damage. It takes real skill to take them out with lasers. Lasers are the only skill weapon in the game. You can't just point and click with them. You have to hold your reticle on a moving target the entire time. ACs should be nerfed because they don't require any skill.


see how that kind of argument works? I essentially just made the same exact claim and showed how it was "true" using the same kind of examples that you did. It's the same exact principle

[Kjudoon]

MetalGandalph, on 16 July 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

The new Lrms are a "**** you" from PGI to the competitive scene.
Seriously i dont understand the " 80 dmg guided pinpoint dmg to my CT ****"
My daughter is 16 and she said that the game looks cool. She never plays this kind of games.
So i put her in tutorial and testing grounds with an lrm boat.
The first 2 games AFTER THE TUTORIAL havent been that good but in the third she made 700 dmg and 3 kills.

There is no discussion that LRMS are No SKill weapons.

ROLL BACK LRMS NOW!

Uhhhhh... no.

What you call 'skill' I call pavlovian twitch response that takes as much wisdom and knowledge as learning to flinch when your brother known for punching you in the shoulder makes a fast move.

[Boymonkey]

Have not used em for ages and I have no problem with them even in my whale.
If I get caught out it is my own fault and kudos to the lrm player.

[Kjudoon]

Mavairo, on 16 July 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

*funny accuracy*

I like PBR and still churn out 'no skill'' games like this:



I ran out of missiles before I could get to that last stalker who put up an awesome fight. That was my first 8 kill game ever.

This is with 40 LRMs+artemis 1 ML TAG and BAP on an Orion VA. I await pictures to see how many other people can churn out the same results since LRMs are OP no skill monsters. Oh, and before I get the accusations I'm at a low elo, this was my final score in the last Faction Tournament... using that build.

Edited by Kjudoon, 16 July 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[Biaxialrain]

No skill warrior online is the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf and Clan tech in general.

More damage, further range, no minimal range LRMs etc..............

Why can't IS mechs have the same thing????

You're fooling yourselves.

[Mavairo]

Kjudoon, on 16 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I like PBR and still churn out 'no skill'' games like this:



I ran out of missiles before I could get to that last stalker who put up an awesome fight. That was my first 8 kill game ever.

This is with 40 LRMs+artemis 1 ML TAG and BAP on an Orion VA. I await pictures to see how many other people can churn out the same results since LRMs are OP no skill monsters. Oh, and before I get the accusations I'm at a low elo, this was my final score in the last Faction Tournament... using that build.

I actually know Marctraider from another game, he wasn't all that great in STO until he got his jemhadar attack ship, and kerrat bot farmed all of his gear, even then I could make him run in full 5v5s. In this game? He used to complain about how OP LRMs are, and I haven't seen him since ELO got put in, and I could out do him before ELO, while piloting a Dragon with him in a Jenner (back when the lag shield was an actual thing), regularly, before he quit for the third time.

The PGI faction challenge is hardly a hallmark and highwater mark of your skill set. Especially when you could pick the least played factions to get up the ladders quicker.

The faction challenge was also a complete joke, since Teams couldn't compete, and the winners of the faction challenge were each using the PPC AC mechs. There's a reason for that.

Not saying you're in the Underhive, just saying your screen shot evidence is still unfortunately quite questionable, due to a myriad of outlying factors.
Screenshots don't tell any part of the story. Video is where it's at which is why I don't bother posting screen shots beyond ones that I find amusing. Video is much much more informative as to what happened, how and why, and is a much better tool for everyone including devs to learn from.

I mean really, I could post a series of 750 damage, Johnny 5 games of me in a 5N Dragon screen shots if I were so inclined. But that hardly means the Dragon is some great chassis right? It doesn't matter how many times I can get freakish #s in the Dragon, with variants that aren't even exactly favored among the Dragon owners even, we all know the Dragon is hardly the optimal mech for how mechwarrior is setup. Said dragon is armed with 2 MGs 1AC10 and 2 LL. So it's hardly even pseudo meta beyond having 10 instant pinpoint damage.

Edited by Mavairo, 16 July 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Novakaine]

MetalGandalph, on 16 July 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

The new Lrms are a "**** you" from PGI to the competitive scene.
Seriously i dont understand the " 80 dmg guided pinpoint dmg to my CT ****"
My daughter is 16 and she said that the game looks cool. She never plays this kind of games.
So i put her in tutorial and testing grounds with an lrm boat.
The first 2 games AFTER THE TUTORIAL havent been that good but in the third she made 700 dmg and 3 kills.

There is no discussion that LRMS are No SKill weapons.

ROLL BACK LRMS NOW!

Pffft no skill my hind quarters.
1. Moving targets.
2. Uneven terrain.
3. ECM
4. Totally ineffective under 180mm.
5. Target lock far too slow.
6. Lock targets, I don't even bother to ask.
I could go on, but you get the picture, I've had 1000+ point games and I've had less than 100 point games.
It depends on the pilot same as any other mech.
Sorry you can't take your glass cannon out and alpha people anymore unimpeded.
But guess what - Good.

[Lyoto Machida]

Biaxialrain, on 16 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

No skill warrior online is the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf and Clan tech in general.

More damage, further range, no minimal range LRMs etc..............

Why can't IS mechs have the same thing????

You're fooling yourselves.

Sorry, this isn't a NASCAR game where people more or less have the same vehicle. How boring do you want this game?

In any case...learn2post.

[Sprouticus]

Ngamok, on 16 July 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

See that's the thing. Unless you bring your own TAG, you have to rely on your team to do the locking. In good games with good players, if you are using TAG yourself, you are leaving yourself open for those good players that will core you. NARC on the other hand you mostly rely on teammates that are up closer to actually hit people with NARC (I run NARC on like 3 mechs total, Clan + IS). If none of your teammates is running neither, you have to rely on good hard locks to get your missiles off unless you are going to go ahead and get within brawl range and do it yourself.

Oh I agree 100%. I was just asking what the function fot TAG and NARC are if LRM's dont require lock to be maintained. Wouldn't it instantly make them useless?

[Mavairo]

Case in point about why screens aren't exactly valuable for determining what is or isn't powerful
this 1C is armed with 2LL 2ML 1 AC10, it moves at 95 kph.

This Fang just couldn't land the kill shots (my AC10 was on CD at the wrong times instead of waiting "for that last perfect shot" Armed? 2 LL 1AC10, 1 MG, 1 ML



Obviously the Fang is heinously OP

These by the way are just the tip of the iceberg, I have god only knows how many more like it saved in my screens folder. I just get a kick out of slapping people around in a Crappy Mech. If I had to guess how many more I have saved like it, it probably is up around a hundred. Just in the Fang, let alone my other Dragons.
By the way incidentally all of these shots are post stat reset and wipe.
I also redid my Fang recently to carry 2 LPL and 1 AC10. Since it's weapon overhaul, it's KDR is 2.55 calculated by hand. Broken mech is broken right? Broken weapons are broken?

Or is it more of a matter of who's carrying them around, aiming, firing, and keeping a good battlefield awareness and sense of timing? By all rights, the Fang shouldn't perform as it does, and yet there it is always there and steadily gaining KDR against the odds. LRMs and their use above the PBR Swilling Tier, is much the same as a Dragon. When that guy that does THAT with LRMs, in the upper middle and low high bracket can pump out results... imagine what happens when they get in the "good stuff"

Editors note as an aside. I'm willing to pilot a Dragon, and even I point at the AWS and say "oh hell no" what does that say about just how unsalvageable the AWS is?

Still, I doubt any of the LRMs are OP crowd are going to post anything like your results, in a consistent repeatable fashion.
I probably have already posted more screen shots of my Fang kicking people around than they have in their entirety of playing LRMs winning their matches for them.

Edited by Mavairo, 16 July 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[Mystere]

Biaxialrain, on 16 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

No skill warrior online is the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf and Clan tech in general.

More damage, further range, no minimal range LRMs etc..............

Why can't IS mechs have the same thing????

You're fooling yourselves.

So, do you have any detailed end-to-end analysis worthy of a scientific journal that you can present that definitively shows that Clan tech is OP?

And by "detailed end-to-end analysis", I mean:

• chassis analysis, including all variants and IS/Clan configurability
  
• weapons analysis, including damage, rate of fire, duration, burst vs single-shot, weight, slots, ammo, impulse
  
• equipment options analysis, especially those that affect speed, agility, and heat efficiency
  
• time and spatial-based dynamic models of how the above interact in 1 vs. 1, 1 vs. N, lance vs. star, and team vs. team encounters

Or are you actually asking for every mech to be the same, every weapon to be the same, and every piece of equipment to be the same, with the only difference being visual and sound effects?.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 16 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

are you actually asking for every mech to be the same, every weapon to be the same, and every piece of equipment to be the same, with the only difference being visual and sound effects?.

that's been the most common request (whether they realize it, admit it, or otherwise) since OB started. You didn't see nearly the amount of "op" and such type complaints. It wasn't that the game had much, if any, difference in the actual balance, it's that the player base started changing and PGI started looking at a new demographic while the CB crowd got pushed onto an island and mocked by PGI employees....

[Vermana]

So many people don't understand positioning... If you don't want to get destroyed by LRMs then don't run out into the open like a headless chicken.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vermana, on 16 July 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

So many people don't understand positioning... If you don't want to get destroyed by LRMs then don't run out into the open like a headless chicken.

Or if you do, make sure you have AMS, Radar Dep, and preferably an ECM mech.

[Sandpit]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 16 July 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Or if you do, make sure you have AMS, Radar Dep, and preferably an ECM mech.

or you have a buddy who does

[Turist0AT]

Karamarka, on 16 July 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Just a quick question from a neutral, how do they require teamwork? Serious question. You are guaranteed locks in a 12v12....... the game makes you auto lock most of the time (Teammates)...... dont get your bs defence

this is what i said: It requires teamwork to make them effective.

What part of it dont you understand? Do i really need to explain role of a scout?

And dont give me "im a neutral" bs

Edited by Turist0AT, 16 July 2014 - 04:40 PM.