110 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I found it hard to imagine that a sane person would think the current TimberWolf is not broken and being anything else but a giant P2W button for 55 dollars. The thing has JJ, runs faster than any 65 ton IS meches, has more weaponry options. Plus like the other Clan meches, it has a XL engine that does not explode after losing a side torso.

Well, I've never used one. Have you?


I do now that they die plenty easily, having less armor than a Victor and it lacks effective shield arms.

[bluepiglet]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Well, I've never used one. Have you?


I do now that they die plenty easily, having less armor than a Victor and it lacks effective shield arms.

The fact you have to use the comparison between this Heavy mech and an Assault class as your argument tells a lot.

[Mcgral18]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

The fact you have to use the comparison between this Heavy mech and an Assault class as your argument tells a lot.

You mean a 75 and an 80 tonner?

That's a bit of a flawed argument, since PGI intended Clans to be balanced within 5 tons. So, 80 is 75+5.

Care to try again?

[bluepiglet]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

You mean a 75 and an 80 tonner?

That's a bit of a flawed argument, since PGI intended Clans to be balanced within 5 tons. So, 80 is 75+5.

Care to try again?

Inventing PGI's intention to float your boat now? Not bad...

[RagingOyster]

Khobai, on 16 July 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

The dire wolf is how all 100 ton assaults should be. the problem is the atlas is a terrible mech and always has been. So when people compare the dire wolf to the atlas its not really a fair comparison, because the atlas needs some major buffs.

As for the timberwolf im not so sure its that bad anymore thanks to the jumpjet nerf. Will have to wait and see.

Atlas is terrible and always has been? What game have you been playing?

[Mcgral18]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Inventing PGI's intention to float your boat now? Not bad...

27 minutes in.

http://www.nogutsnog...7b&topic=1847.0


Now, are you going to debate any facts, or just keep whining?

[xe N on]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

You mean a 75 and an 80 tonner?

That's a bit of a flawed argument, since PGI intended Clans to be balanced within 5 tons. So, 80 is 75+5.

Care to try again?

As a SHD medium pilot I realy start to hate Timberwolfs. They move at 90 kp/h, are nearly as mobile and agile as my med, but bring a hell lot of more armor and weapons.

[Mcgral18]

xe N on, on 16 July 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

As a SHD medium pilot I realy start to hate Timberwolfs. They move at 90 kp/h, are nearly as mobile and agile as my med, but bring a hell lot of more armor and weapons.

They have about the same tonnage, actually. Though, lighter weapons does help in that regard.

For a mech 20 tons heavier, having the same amount of tonnage is kinda laughable. That engine is what makes it have so little, and move so fast.

Like the Victor's of old, which were nerfed to hell and back. Will the same happen to the TimberWolf?

[Gyrok]

Hobgoblin I, on 16 July 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Viktor, you are just wrong about this.
Clan laser duration is longer, but at any point in time of that duration is has done more damage than its IS counterpart. Take the IS med laser vs the clan er med laser. A 1 sec duration and 5 damage for the IS, and a 1.3 sec 7 damage for the clan. At the IS cutoff of 1 sec, the clan laser has done 5.39 damage. That is a DPS advantage. Also, the range advantage of clan lasers (where damage drops off past 270m for IS and 450m for clans) magnifies the DPS advantage of the clans.
The only heat advantage the IS beams have on clantech is the 1 heat less med laser compared to the clan ER med laser and the .9 heat advantage of the IS med pulse over the clan med pulse...hardly significant, especially if you factor in the smaller clan 2x heat sinks. Clan laser cleary are superior to IS lasers, hell, you should be comparing the clan er med to the IS large laser...2 less damage but 2 less heat, same range and 4 tons lighter...
This is the type of false outrage that people give when they want to avoid nerfs at all costs, but the numbers speak for themselves.

Negative, this is absolutely untrue. The ONLY Clan laser that has any sort of "better" over the IS counterpart is the CERML. That laser does the same damage per tick as the IS ML, though it does generate more heat, and has longer beam duration to get more damage.

Every other Clan laser either does less damage per tick or equal, and generates more heat than the IS counterpart while having longer beam durations and the 1 advantage of range.

[Galathon Redd]

Bhelogan, on 16 July 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

Because if you don't own them, you don't know how their mechanics work and you don't know their weaknesses. It's that fear of the unknown thing. Once there out for C-Bills, all the p2win crowd will be like, 'Oh, it isn't one hit auto win OMG OP No Skillz, like i've been crying for months'.

The very day they were released, and I saw nearly half of every team using them, I made it a point to spectate the heck out of my teammate's Clan Mechs whenever I died just so that I could alleviate that exact problem. It's not the same as running one yourself, but you still get very close to the same amount of knowledge - enough that I never once, not for one moment, thought they were OP. But I did think they were pretty daggone cool to watch in action!

[Angel of Annihilation]

Galathon Redd, on 16 July 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

The very day they were released, and I saw nearly half of every team using them, I made it a point to spectate the heck out of my teammate's Clan Mechs whenever I died just so that I could alleviate that exact problem. It's not the same as running one yourself, but you still get very close to the same amount of knowledge - enough that I never once, not for one moment, thought they were OP. But I did think they were pretty daggone cool to watch in action!

Actually this brings up a though I have had for a while. While I don't believe Clan mechs are OPed, generally they seem to be more fun to actually play.

The streaming LRMs are just cooler to watch. The Burst AC just feel more brutal. The MGs sound more visceral. Hell sound effects in general are just way cooler for the Clans than the IS.

It really makes for a more fun experience despite my Clan mechs generally only equaling my IS mechs as far as K/D, at their best.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 16 July 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

It's bad though when the best of a class is only available for real world currency.

It's only a temporary condition, unlike the Dragon Slayer or Ember. So I'm not concerned at all about such things in an F2P game.

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 16 July 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

It's only a temporary condition, unlike the Dragon Slayer or Ember. So I'm not concerned at all about such things in an F2P game.

It gives you time to grind out the C-Bills.


I wonder if it will get the Victor treatment before then.

[Mystere]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I found it hard to imagine that a sane person would think the current TimberWolf is not broken and being anything else but a giant P2W button for 55 dollars. The thing has JJ, runs faster than any 65 ton IS meches, has more weaponry options. Plus like the other Clan meches, it has a XL engine that does not explode after losing a side torso.

So, do you have any detailed end-to-end analysis worthy of a scientific journal that you can present that definitively shows that the TW is indeed broken?

And by "detailed end-to-end analysis", I mean:

• chassis analysis, including all variants and IS/Clan configurability
  
• weapons analysis, including damage, rate of fire, duration, burst vs single-shot, weight, slots, ammo, impulse
  
• equipment options analysis, especially those that affect speed, agility, and heat efficiency
  
• time and spatial-based dynamic models of how the above interact in 1 vs. 1, 1 vs. N, lance vs. star, and team vs. team encounters

Am I asking to much?

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

imho
Clan mechs are not overpowered in their weapons or combination of weapons they can run.

Only 2 feel "op" because of the amount of damage they are able to "tank".

Feels as if the medium class stormcrow "tanks" damage as a IS heavy would.
Same feel applies to the Timberwolf. A heavy that "tanks" damage as if an assault class IS mech would.
This ability to "tank" damage a class above makes these 2 and only these 2 mechs feel op.

I dont have numbers to back this up, just feelings from tons and tons of drops.
Groups of 5 or more, mainly 12 mans and some 3 or 4 man group drops, odd solo drop here and there.
All played in my jr7-k(7 medium lasers,1 jj)
Bj-1 (ac20, 3 mediums, 1 jj).

Edited by UncleTouchy, 16 July 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[bluepiglet]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

27 minutes in.

http://www.nogutsnog...7b&topic=1847.0


Now, are you going to debate any facts, or just keep whining?

All I heard is a Dev admitting that TimberWolf is indeed overpowered and they had to tweak the MM to add extra tonnage on this mech to give the opposite team a chance to win.

Isn't this what this thread about? TW is brokenly overpowered and here we have a Dev acknowledging that?

[Mcgral18]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

All I heard is a Dev admitting that TimberWolf is indeed overpowered and they had to tweak the MM to add extra tonnage on this mech to give the opposite team a chance to win.

Isn't this what this thread about? TW is brokenly overpowered and here we have a Dev acknowledging that?

Would you kindly take a look at the date that podcast had aired?

In case you hadn't noticed, this was released 3 months before Clans were released.



Man, I can't wait until I hear you whining about how UP Clan tech is once you finally try it.

"What do you mean my ACs fire in bursts?! My LRM40 is getting eaten by a single mech!?"

One laser that is better than the IS stuff for damage dealt over a second.


That wasn't about anything being overpowered, that was about balance.

Though, I do have a question: Do you know what torso twisting is?

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 July 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Would you kindly take a look at the date that podcast had aired?

In case you hadn't noticed, this was released 3 months before Clans were released.



Man, I can't wait until I hear you whining about how UP Clan tech is once you finally try it.

"What do you mean my ACs fire in bursts?! My LRM40 is getting eaten by a single mech!?"

One laser that is better than the IS stuff for damage dealt over a second.


That wasn't about anything being overpowered, that was about balance.

Though, I do have a question: Do you know what torso twisting is?

Yeah alot of people are going to disappointed and/or changing their tune when the finally get their hands on the Clan mechs.

I spent $55 on a Timberwolf and for about the first 3 matches felt like a god, until I realized my overall K/D ratio was starting to go down. Then after about 30-40 matches, I realized my K/D was much worse with the TW than it was with my Battlemasters that I had been playing and pretty much matching the numbers I was outputting with my T-bolts and CTFs.

It was at that point I realized I didn't really end up buying the "best" mech in the game like all the forum posters led me to believe but hey it allowed me to customize it much more to my liking than most IS mechs allowed and the mechanics and sound effects made it killer fun to play.

In the end, I don't quite feel I wasted my money but I do absolutely feel I paid too much for the hype.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 16 July 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[Mystere]

bluepiglet, on 16 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

All I heard is a Dev admitting that TimberWolf is indeed overpowered and they had to tweak the MM to add extra tonnage on this mech to give the opposite team a chance to win.

Isn't this what this thread about? TW is brokenly overpowered and here we have a Dev acknowledging that?

Huh? Did you listen to the same thing I did? They were discussing a hypothetical situation with regard to the MM as well as balancing, not that the TW was overpowered.

[MadPanda]

Clan mechs are more powerful than IS mechs. I don't know why anyone would argue otherwise.