26 replies to this topic

[Leggin]

Maybe I am miss understanding what is being said about torso twist but it appears it will be shoulder twist that will target the arms only. In MechWarrior torso twist is from the waist and targets all weapons while look right or left targets the arms. I would think the second redical would be tied to look right or left and that torso twist would have its normal function which allows an Alfa.

Leggin

Edited by Leggin, 21 June 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[Captain Wolfsburg]

The torso does twist, but the arms lead the torso. So the primary reticle is your torso targeting, and your secondary reticle is your arms. Because your arms lead your torso, the second reticle moves within (And sometimes outside of) the primary reticle.

Simple as that.

It's still torso twist, just a little more realistic that previous games.

[Reno Blade]

As far, as the ingame footage and screenshots look, there is the usual torsotwist. Also there is arm-movement and weapon convergence.
More information can be found in the stickies.

[Leggin]

A5mod3us, on 21 June 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

The torso does twist, but the arms lead the torso. So the primary reticle is your torso targeting, and your secondary reticle is your arms. Because your arms lead your torso, the second reticle moves within (And sometimes outside of) the primary reticle.

Simple as that.

It's still torso twist, just a little more realistic that previous games.

So for an alfa with torso twist you will have to wait for the torso to catch up with the arms? I would think there would be a button to lock the arms and torso.

Edited by Leggin, 21 June 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[LCRacerX]

Check out this video - it talks specifically about torso twisting & arm mounted weapons ~ 1:50 mark.

http://mwomercs.com/...deo/kmNRN-l-BJw

[IceSerpent]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

So for an alfa with torso twist you will have to wait for the torso to catch up with the arms? I would think there would be a button to lock the arms and torso.

For what purpose? If your arms are locked with torso, both weapon groups move at the same speed (that of the torso weapons). As it is now, you can simply wait for torso reticle to catch up with arms and fire your alpha strike - same exact thing.

[Leggin]

LCRacerX, on 21 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Check out this video - it talks specifically about torso twisting & arm mounted weapons ~ 1:50 mark.

http://mwomercs.com/...deo/kmNRN-l-BJw

Thanks for the video link. I had already looked at that. In fact it is what got me concerned. I can see that independent movement of the arms would be good for a mech that doesn't have torso twist capability but the constant jiggle of the redical, while waiting for the torso to catch up is downright irritating.

To answer IceSerpent the purpose of an Alfa is to bring all weapons to bear in a split second. If you are in a heavy or an assault and have ever had a light running around chewing your legs off you sure can't wait for the torso to catch up with the arms.

With the torso lagging behind the arms you essentially have built in server lag. This is why look right and left is a better way of moving the arms. I don't understand the change.

Leggin

Edited by Leggin, 21 June 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[Mchawkeye]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

So for an alfa with torso twist you will have to wait for the torso to catch up with the arms? I would think there would be a button to lock the arms and torso.

one of the majour reasons for weapon convergence is to make alpha strikes less accurate and thus less of the insta-death. locking arms to torso would eliminate that particular method for balancing alpha strikes, so I think it unlikely that would happen

Off course, I have no idea how the catapult k2 deals with this.

[BlindProphet]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Thanks for the video link. I had already looked at that. In fact it is what got me concerned. I can see that independent movement of the arms would be good for a mech that doesn't have torso twist capability but the constant jiggle of the redical, while waiting for the torso to catch up is downright irritating.

To answer IceSerpent the purpose of an Alfa is to bring all weapons to bear in a split second. If you are in a heavy or an assault and have ever had a light running around chewing your legs off you sure can't wait for the torso to catch up with the arms.

With the torso lagging behind the arms you essentially have built in server lag. This is why look right and left is a better way of moving the arms. I don't understand the change.

Leggin

For the love of all that is holy it is alPHa not alFa.

Secondly, no it is not essentially built in lag for the torso to twist faster than the arms can move. Its your arms can move and aim that direction far faster than the servos can move your tosro. Meaning you can fire your arm weapons at the target without having to fire your torso weapons. Meaning you can start damaging the individual before your torso gets around. If you want to alpha strike someone then you have to wait for it to catch up.

And no, looking left and right would not be better. If I want to check my right flank to see where the enemy is over there, I don't want my arms to suddenly swing in that direction.

Also your point about the heavy and assault being chewed up by the light...being able to get your arms around faster than your toso helps with this. If you don't see how being able to get weapons on target quicker is helpful...then well...I give up.

[Leggin]

blindprophet, on 21 June 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

If you don't see how being able to get weapons on target quicker is helpful...then well...I give up.

Thanks for your reply.

Possibly you have never played mechwarrior. With a light running around you your torso will never catch up to it to bring weapons to bare.

And thank you for correcting my spelling of alfa. We all need to be corrected now and then.

Leggin

[BlindProphet]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Thanks for your reply.

Possibly you have never played mechwarrior. With a light running around you your torso will never catch up to it to bring weapons to bare.

And thank you for correcting my spelling of alfa. We all need to be corrected now and then.

Leggin

I've played every MW game save MW1.

And thank you for proving my point of why its good arms move independently of the torso...

If arms were locked to the torso as in previous games, you'd never get your weapons on target...here you can get weapons on target via your arms. This is not a bad thing. This is a good thing.

[Leggin]

blindprophet, on 21 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

I've played every MW game save MW1.

And thank you for proving my point of why its good arms move independently of the torso...

If arms were locked to the torso as in previous games, you'd never get your weapons on target...here you can get weapons on target via your arms. This is not a bad thing. This is a good thing.

So if you run into a scout mech you better have your arms loaded with every thing you can shove in them because you will never be able to use your torso weapons. Well that will not reduce the effectiveness of an Alfa (see I can learn ) it removes it against fast mechs.

Leggin

[BlindProphet]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

So if you run into a scout mech you better have your arms loaded with every thing you can shove in them because you will never be able to use your torso weapons. Well that will not reduce the effectiveness of an Alfa (see I can learn ) it removes it against fast mechs.

Leggin

>.<

At close range, against a fast opponent, yes you're less likely to get an alpha strike off. But if you're in a slow mech like that against a faster opponent it is better to do some damage than none at all.

At long range it will still be possible even against a fast mech due to how that works over distance. Its exactly like a pie slice. The tip of the slice being where your mech is, and the area of the slice being the area in which you've twisted over x time. Notice the farther away from where your mech is, the greater the area covered by that minor twist.

[Leggin]

blindprophet, on 21 June 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

>.<
At close range, against a fast opponent, yes you're less likely to get an alpha strike off. But if you're in a slow mech like that against a faster opponent it is better to do some damage than none at all.

Thanks again for your reply. I think this confirms my concerns and answers my question very well!

Leggin

[Myc]

How does this confirm your concerns? Maybe you used a poor choice of words with "confirm." Maybe I'm missing something. I cannot see how arms moving interdependently of the torso would be a disadvantage in any circumstance (except maybe if you're the one being shot at by the slow twisting assault). The torso would not be slower. It just makes aiming faster and more versatile. You know about weapon groups, right? Every shot doesn't need to be an alpha strike.

[Coolant]

You were very diplomatic Leggin about the whole Alfa/Alpha spelling lol...you've been playing MW for years and I know you know how to spell alpha as I've been on the other end of your Alfa/Alphas and they hurt! Good to see ya

I think the convergence difference from Mercs will help with lights and Circle of Death...as was mentioned, being able to do some damage is better than none at all, I think it will just take a lot of practice with this new dynamic.

[IceSerpent]

Leggin, on 21 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

To answer IceSerpent the purpose of an Alfa is to bring all weapons to bear in a split second. If you are in a heavy or an assault and have ever had a light running around chewing your legs off you sure can't wait for the torso to catch up with the arms.

You think that making arm-mounted weapons track slower (at the speed of the torso twist) would make it easier to nail that light circling you? I don't follow your logic.

[Leggin]

Coolant, on 21 June 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

You were very diplomatic Leggin about the whole Alfa/Alpha spelling lol...you've been playing MW for years and I know you know how to spell alpha as I've been on the other end of your Alfa/Alphas and they hurt! Good to see ya

I think the convergence difference from Mercs will help with lights and Circle of Death...as was mentioned, being able to do some damage is better than none at all, I think it will just take a lot of practice with this new dynamic.

Very good to see you Coolant. What made you decide to merc instead of joining a house?

Leggin

[Leggin]

IceSerpent, on 21 June 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

You think that making arm-mounted weapons track slower (at the speed of the torso twist) would make it easier to nail that light circling you? I don't follow your logic.

Arm mounted weapons dont track slower if they are linked to look right or look left. In fact it gives you the ability to run facing forward at full speed and still fire to the side or on some mechs even further back.

One of the most important moves to be able to make when being circled by a fast mech is to quickly twist your torso the opposite direction of travel and hit reverse. Because of the speed of the fast mech it cant slow down in time to stop from running into your target area for an alpha. You still have to get onto the target though and that is when you need every thing now not when the torso catches up. By that time he has killed you, if you are highly damaged or he's gone and chewing on you again.

Just ask Coolant what he would do to you with a Fenris if you had that kind of lag going on and you were in an assualt.

Leggin

Edited by Leggin, 21 June 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Fl3tcher]

Technically correct, but in the TT Battletech game you can only twist the torso by a certain amount, only arm and rear mounted weapons could actually shoot behind you, If that light gets into your dead zone your lancemates aren't doing their job right.

From what I've seen in the teaser/gameplay vids this seems to be the case.