21 replies to this topic

[Hatachi]

Okay first off, I'm not saying we reclassify mechs outside of traditional size ratings. Also, no clan mechs fit the criteria at the moment, but would and should be looked at separately when they are added. This is a "spitball" style idea, so feel free to throw you own counter ideas out there. I just wanted to throw a general theme and base idea to work off of.

The general idea is for 40, 60, and 80 ton mechs to be classified one size down. What do most people think of when they think of a Cicada? The vast majority I hear say an over sized light. What do most people I talk to call a Dragon, besides bad, an over sized medium. It could breath new life into these extremely underused chassis and put them in competition with mechs built for more similar roles. I know this idea seems a bit off the wall.

[Deathlike]

Victors are still the best Assaults, so "meh".

Cicadas have a pretty good niche, besides being overweight Lights... though it's just ECM 2-3 LL or 2 PPCs.

Although the Quickdraw is better than a Dragon IMO... that has to do a lot more with the situation the mechs are in...(1 ton JJs for Quickdraws... and Quickdraws being crazily large... Dragon has a big "nose").

[El Bandito]

Victor (specifically the DS) should have a class of its own.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 July 2014 - 10:58 PM.

[Hatachi]

It's true that Victors are a go to mech. On the other hand, it forces MadCats and Victors to share the same spots in the 3x4 que. :3

[Sephlock]

I for one welcome my new Victor/TimberWolf/Shadow Hawk/Firestarter(?) overlords!

Hatachi, on 17 July 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

It's true that Victors are a go to mech.

[Deathlike]

Sephlock, on 17 July 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

I for one welcome my new Victor/TimberWolf/Shadow Hawk/Firestarter(?)Jenner overlords!

While the Ember is much better at dismantling bigger mechs... the Jenner is still teh overlord.

[SirLANsalot]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Victors are still the best Assaults, so "meh".

Cicadas have a pretty good niche, besides being overweight Lights... though it's just ECM 2-3 LL or 2 PPCs.

Although the Quickdraw is better than a Dragon IMO... that has to do a lot more with the situation the mechs are in...(1 ton JJs for Quickdraws... and Quickdraws being crazily large... Dragon has a big "nose").

Victors are crap for assaults, becasue they do not have the armor to stand up to the other TRUE assault mechs. This is an inherent issue with all "border" mechs when they just cross the line by 5 tons. Border mechs do not have the firepower of there class, nor the speed, and most do not have the armor, as they behave (or try to) like the class below them. This is where the 80/85 ton assault mechs get the short end of the stick, not enough tonnage to pack on tons of guns like the 90+ton mechs, nor do they have the armor to do so. IS 80 ton assaults, cannot sacrifice high eng ratings to pack on the guns like how the 90's can. They also do not benefit for taking massively high rating engs either, as there speed is still very low for that much tonnage dedicated to there "speed".

On the other hand, the 35/55/75 ton mechs punch well above there class while still being there own class. They have the most armor in there class while still retaining there speed.

[Hatachi]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Victors are still the best Assaults, so "meh".

Cicadas have a pretty good niche, besides being overweight Lights... though it's just ECM 2-3 LL or 2 PPCs.

Although the Quickdraw is better than a Dragon IMO... that has to do a lot more with the situation the mechs are in...(1 ton JJs for Quickdraws... and Quickdraws being crazily large... Dragon has a big "nose").

I get that your saying that the Quickdraw is better than the Dragon. However, would you compare it more closely in how it handles to a Shadowhawk/Griffin, or a Cataphract/Orion?

[NextGame]

Hatachi, on 17 July 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

Okay first off, I'm not saying we reclassify mechs outside of traditional size ratings. Also, no clan mechs fit the criteria at the moment, but would and should be looked at separately when they are added. This is a "spitball" style idea, so feel free to throw you own counter ideas out there. I just wanted to throw a general theme and base idea to work off of.

The general idea is for 40, 60, and 80 ton mechs to be classified one size down. What do most people think of when they think of a Cicada? The vast majority I hear say an over sized light. What do most people I talk to call a Dragon, besides bad, an over sized medium. It could breath new life into these extremely underused chassis and put them in competition with mechs built for more similar roles. I know this idea seems a bit off the wall.

If theres weight matching going on, there shouldnt be an issue beyond the increasingly 2 dimensional boringly predictable team make ups.

Dragons are hilarious as you can ramp them up to 100kph and bully kit foxes, but yes, you I suppose it might be that you are selling your team short by running at the lighter end of a weight class.

[Deathlike]

Hatachi, on 17 July 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

I get that your saying that the Quickdraw is better than the Dragon. However, would you compare it more closely in how it handles to a Shadowhawk/Griffin, or a Cataphract/Orion?

The Quickdraw is closer to a Shadowhawk/Griffin in terms of overall mobility, but it doesn't have quite the same torso twist speeds either (because, mediums in general got buffs).

The Cataphract isn't that far off though from the Quickdraw... outside of max speed, but I can't compare that to an Orion because I haven't played it.

[Kyle Wright]

Honestly all mechs, more specifically the mech's that fall into that lower end of each weight class need quirks that make them worth taking over other mechs. Another big thing is hit boxes still are garbage on mechs like Awesome, quickdraw, and for the clans nova.

[Vassago Rain]

Yes, classifying the dragon as a medium will totally make people run it. It's not like they want to bring 3 shadowhawks, or anything.

[Jack Corban]

You guys should show up at the Stockmech events to learn some appriciation for the mechs you are discussing.

http://mwomercs.com/...k-mech-mondays/

http://mwomercs.com/...era-wednesdays/

Nothing as thrilling as a Stockmech Match.

Cheers

[wanderer]

Quote

I know this idea seems a bit off the wall.

http://mwomercs.com/...matchmaker-fix/

If realizing L/M/H/A isn't quite accurate for tiering matches is madness, I don't want to be sane.

[Malleus011]

As a possible addendum, the MM could treat the 'low edge' mechs as the lighter weight class when it can't find enough of that weight class. So, if there aren't enough lights, it might pull in a Cicada. A Dragon might stand in for a medium.

The Victor is a non-issue as there will never not be enough Mad Cats.

[Hatachi]

The main issue I see with your idea Malleus is that you're making people that play those mechs gamble every match on being a "lucky bump up," or be looked at as bottom rung in the match making class they're still thought of as being part. Standardization goes a long way towards perception. If the match maker says compare a dragon to a hunchback, it will go a lot farther in how the perception of these mechs are seen as well as used.

[Karamarka]

I bought a Dragon for the lulz, it's worse than my Summoner. That's saying something.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hatachi, on 17 July 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

Okay first off, I'm not saying we reclassify mechs outside of traditional size ratings. Also, no clan mechs fit the criteria at the moment, but would and should be looked at separately when they are added. This is a "spitball" style idea, so feel free to throw you own counter ideas out there. I just wanted to throw a general theme and base idea to work off of.

The general idea is for 40, 60, and 80 ton mechs to be classified one size down. What do most people think of when they think of a Cicada? The vast majority I hear say an over sized light. What do most people I talk to call a Dragon, besides bad, an over sized medium. It could breath new life into these extremely underused chassis and put them in competition with mechs built for more similar roles. I know this idea seems a bit off the wall.

It is a bit off the wall, I don't like it, but then again I don't hate it. And a Cicada is a Locust on Steroids... as it was designed to be.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly the Cicada just needs better hitboxes, it has a glass jaw issue that its successor (the Strider) does not share for a reason. That and the 3C needs either more ballistic or energy points so it can be as gimmicky as the Ember. Give us a 4 MG 4 ML Cicada and see who doesn't play with it.

[Fleeb the Mad]

There may be something better lurking in the background that would help mechs in the lowest end of their class.

From the most recent patch notes (http://mwomercs.com/...06-16-jul-2014/):

Quote

MatchMaker Improvements

• Improvements to the matchmaker to better balance team sizes in group games
  
• More robust group matching rules, including group size handicaps
  
• Improved internal monitoring and configuration tools
  
• Changes to how lances are assigned in public games
  
• Improved tonnage matching for solo games

If the overall tonnage on your team is becoming a factor in matchmaking, then it will do more to assist mechs like the Locust, Dragon or Awesome than any kind of class label would. It means the fact they're not the most powerful mech in their class isn't held against the team, because it'll be made up for somewhere else.

Edited by Fleeb the Mad, 18 July 2014 - 03:31 PM.