26 replies to this topic

[Haakon Magnusson]

Ammo explosions in MWO are.. well, rare.
And you can't really cook off ammo in overheating. While also following tabletop rules of explosions is fairly brutal which may not appeal to everyone. I propose looking into an alternative implementation:

Whats wrong;

- Crit ammo explosions occur rare and when they do, they are like an arty shell to the head.
- Heat explosions don't really happen

How about following change to ammo explosion system:

When a weapon crits ammo bin, it has a varying chance of setting it off either partially or wholly.
Out of the top of my head:

Just to take some damage numbers ac20 1t 20x25 / ac2 1t 2x150 = 500dmg / 300dmg

When critting, then say something to tune of:

5% chance to blow the whole ammo bin (Usually this is blows off at least the part, with luck neighboring as well)
5% chance to blow 50% of hit ammo bit (There goes the part)
10% chance to blow 25% of hit ammo (Really bad, but survivable)
20% chance to blow 5% of hit ammo (Nasty, but quite survivable)
60% ammo bin survives (Opposed to 90% nowadays)

Also, add the same for overheat situations. Give it some proportional smallish chance to crit a random ammo bin (Say general case around 5-10%ish)

Oh and when the ammo bin in leg blows, give it same chance to blow as being critted or maybe halved...

Or do we want carry all that ammo with no risk?
(Of course numbers after couple of beers and from the top of my head.. but to make a general idea)

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 18 July 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[Wolfways]

You forgot to add:

Increase ammo/ton for every ammo-based weapon so that they aren't carrying a crapload of ammo everywhere.

TT match = a few minutes. MWO match = up to 15 minutes.

TT CPLT-C1 = 2tons of LRM ammo. MWO CPLT-C1 = A hell of a lot more ammo! (mine = 5 tons and i run out fast)
TT JM6-S = 3 tons of AC ammo. MWO JM6-S = A hell of a lot more ammo! (mine = 9 tons to usually last a match)

I'd like to see more/better ammo explosions, but not while we are forced to fill so many crit slots with ammo.

[pwnface]

I've gotten at least 2 ammo explosion kills today. How often do you want ammo explosions to happen?? Generally, when an ammo explosion does happen it is pretty devastating to the mech. I don't really want to see mechs exploding left and right from frequent ammo explosions.

[Ace Selin]

How about leave ammo explosions as they are, I want to die from enemies not blowing up.

[Vassago Rain]

[Wolfways]

Vassago Rain, on 18 July 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

I love that so much

[Henree]

wow! is that the old version of mwo? mine looks nothing like that

[Vassago Rain]

Henri Schoots, on 18 July 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

wow! is that the old version of mwo? mine looks nothing like that

It predates the great potatofication of mid 2013.

Here is a picture of the original white whale catapult, before they put VCRs and tumors on it.

[Quick n Fast]

Quote

TT CPLT-C1 = 2tons of LRM ammo. MWO CPLT-C1 = A hell of a lot more ammo!
TT JM6-S = 3 tons of AC ammo. MWO JM6-S = A hell of a lot more ammo!

ummmm... the CPLT-C1 ... in MWO ... also has 2tons of ammo.. (Stock) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9286d864535fa75
same with... the JM6-S ... also has 3tons... (Stock) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d37a2b068049be5

also your comparing stock TT to ur custom variants... fyi all stock mechs in MWO have the same loadouts as TT ver.'s

[Wolfways]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 18 July 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

ummmm... the CPLT-C1 ... in MWO ... also has 2tons of ammo.. (Stock) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9286d864535fa75
same with... the JM6-S ... also has 3tons... (Stock) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d37a2b068049be5

also your comparing stock TT to ur custom variants... fyi all stock mechs in MWO have the same loadouts as TT ver.'s

Yeah, that was my point...
TT matches represented a few minutes of real time. MWO matches last up to 15 minutes. Yet PGI didn't increase the amount of ammo per ton (except for the armour increase) with the result that we have stock mechs (which PGI even sells) that are practically useless in MWO.
Imagine Ford selling cars that you can't drive on the road until you customize them

[Xarian]

I dunno. I've killed more than a few mechs by blowing off his left arm (and no damage anywhere else).

[Why Run]

Probably gauss explosions. If you're smart, Jag or Cataphract or Catapult Gauss hogs are most easily disabled by shooting the Gauss. Add in the new crit boosting Targeting Computers and you've got quite the fireworks. C-ERLL/MLs plus targeting computer = less lights with legs too!

[wanderer]

The way things work out now, ammo generally blows out rarely. And even then, you have to crit it enough to actually destroy it. And if we had regular 100% blowout from crits like TT, the massive number of extra ammo tons added would make most ballistic/missile boats tremendously fragile things.

Of course,given XL engines and such, increasing ammo explosion odds would make CASE much more appealing in IS designs (and XLs less so), and Clanners would lose locations to explosions more often as well.

[Warblood]

Quote

You forgot to add:

Increase ammo/ton for every ammo-based weapon so that they aren't carrying a crapload of ammo everywhere

Quote

Yet PGI didn't increase the amount of ammo per ton

TT AC2 45 shots per ton /MWO 75 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/2
AC5 20shots per ton /MWO 30 per ton,
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5
AC10 10shots per ton /MWO 15 per ton
http://www.sarna.net...i/Autocannon/10
AC20 5shots per ton /MWO 7 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5

TT LRMs are 120 per ton /MWO 180 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM-10

seems to me they all got a 40-60% boost in ammo

Edited by Warblood, 18 July 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[Artgathan]

Warblood, on 18 July 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

TT AC2 45 shots per ton /MWO 75 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/2
AC5 20shots per ton /MWO 30 per ton,
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5
AC10 10shots per ton /MWO 15 per ton
http://www.sarna.net...i/Autocannon/10
AC20 5shots per ton /MWO 7 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5

TT LRMs are 120 per ton /MWO 180 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM-10

seems to me they all got a 40-60% boost in ammo

Except SRMs, which stayed at 100 per ton for some reason.

[FupDup]

Warblood, on 18 July 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

TT AC2 45 shots per ton /MWO 75 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/2
AC5 20shots per ton /MWO 30 per ton,
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5
AC10 10shots per ton /MWO 15 per ton
http://www.sarna.net...i/Autocannon/10
AC20 5shots per ton /MWO 7 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon/5

TT LRMs are 120 per ton /MWO 180 per ton
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM-10

seems to me they all got a 40-60% boost in ammo

Most weapons got ammo boosts, but the problem is that we need exponentially more ammo in MWO than TT. In TT, a mech would probably not survive more than roughly 6 turns or so (often less), so most mechs got by just fine with only 1 ton of ammo. In fact, 1 ton of ammo was actually too much for a lot of weapons! A single ton of MG ammo could keep up to 20 MGs fed for a mech's typical lifespan (10 turns is generous), for example. A ton of AC/2 ammo could keep probably ~5 of the guns fed. Most other ammo types could keep 1-2 of their respective guns fed.

In MWO, each weapon usually needs between 2-3 tons of ammo (4 tons for AC/20) to last most of a match, even after we consider the shots per ton increases.

[Quick n Fast]

Quote

Except SRMs, which stayed at 100 per ton for some reason.

this is true... but with all the HRS issues they've had with SRMs... an all the dam adjustments they made to it them to make up for poor HRS.. I think we could see a small ammo boost soon.. now that they are workin much better now.. saran says they do 2dam per missile... smurfy says 2.15dam per missile.. if it gets back down to 2 were it should be.. expect a small boost to the ammo...

Edited by Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, 18 July 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Wolfways, on 18 July 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

You forgot to add:

Increase ammo/ton for every ammo-based weapon so that they aren't carrying a crapload of ammo everywhere.

TT match = a few minutes. MWO match = up to 15 minutes.

TT CPLT-C1 = 2tons of LRM ammo. MWO CPLT-C1 = A hell of a lot more ammo! (mine = 5 tons and i run out fast)
TT JM6-S = 3 tons of AC ammo. MWO JM6-S = A hell of a lot more ammo! (mine = 9 tons to usually last a match)

I'd like to see more/better ammo explosions, but not while we are forced to fill so many crit slots with ammo.

FupDup, on 18 July 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

Most weapons got ammo boosts, but the problem is that we need exponentially more ammo in MWO than TT. In TT, a mech would probably not survive more than roughly 6 turns or so (often less), so most mechs got by just fine with only 1 ton of ammo. In fact, 1 ton of ammo was actually too much for a lot of weapons! A single ton of MG ammo could keep up to 20 MGs fed for a mech's typical lifespan (10 turns is generous), for example. A ton of AC/2 ammo could keep probably ~5 of the guns fed. Most other ammo types could keep 1-2 of their respective guns fed.

In MWO, each weapon usually needs between 2-3 tons of ammo (4 tons for AC/20) to last most of a match, even after we consider the shots per ton increases.

Drawback for the coolest weapons with the highest DPS. Right now, no one can really consider it a drawback.

If you don't think ballistics are the best weapons in the game (along with PPCs that usually need cooler ballistics with them to have a functioning load out) then I suppose ammo crits don't need any changing.

[FupDup]

Bobzilla, on 18 July 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Drawback for the coolest weapons with the highest DPS. Right now, no one can really consider it a drawback.

If you don't think ballistics are the best weapons in the game (along with PPCs that usually need cooler ballistics with them to have a functioning load out) then I suppose ammo crits don't need any changing.

Ballistics tend to have the highest tonnage of any individual weapons. The weakest AC (AC/2) is almost as heavy as the most powerful energy weapon (PPC). Now add ammo for more tonnage consumption. They take up a bigger portion of your payload than missiles or energy tend to, so having them be stronger on an individual basis makes sense. Otherwise, who would want to devote 14 tons to a huge cannon when they could just get the same results from something much smaller?

And no, ballistics are not the best weapons in the game when used by themselves. They only become overpowered when combined with PPCs to form a 30+ point superweapon that damages a single hit location. Is there anyone who complains about a single, unpaired AC/20? AC/10? Gauss Rifle? Probably not, because those individual guns are not a problem until you get to at least 30 points of alpha strike damage.



PS: DPS doesn't matter nearly as much in MWO as other games because of multiple hitboxes. This isn't World of Warcraft where you're humping a raid boss dragon and trying to unload damage into it constantly. You only need to take out one part of your enemy's body to kill them. This could be the CT, head, a leg (sitting duck is basically doomed), or a side torso on an IS XL engine mech. You don't even need to stay exposed after you get the shot off (thus leading to poptarts and hillhumping).

There's a good reason why people fear the 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss Daishi more than the 6 UAC/5 variant, and it's not because of DPS.

Edited by FupDup, 18 July 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 18 July 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

this is true... but with all the HRS issues they've had with SRMs... an all the dam adjustments they made to it them to make up for poor HRS.. I think we could see a small ammo boost soon.. now that they are workin much better now.. saran says they do 2dam per missile... smurfy says 2.15dam per missile.. if it gets back down to 2 were it should be.. expect a small boost to the ammo...

I hope you mean if it gets to 3.0 damage, where it's supposed to be.