52 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Can we PLEASE do something about the friendly fire? It's gotten worse since PGI "re-wrote" the matchmaker.

Right now, you get minor penalty for KILLING a teammate ( - 10k cbills and whatever XP)...but NOTHING for wounding them.

Since PGI has decided that brand new players are the same as "mid-range" experienced ones, we see a LOT of them unloading everything they've got into teammate's backs at spawn...without a "sorry" or "oops" or anything...and NOTHING happens to them. The OBVIOUS fix for this is to separate the PUG queue by skill (which has NOT been happening for a very, very long time now)...but it seems to me that us solo droppers simply don't matter to PGI.

The game has the inherent ability to track damage done to the enemy...that's how we earn the cbills....but it's not tracking what you do to friendlies.

Perhaps adjusting the amount you have deducted from killing and wounding a teammate should echo what you get for doing the same to the enemy might help...and, yes, I'm going to go out on a limb and just assume that the "new players" will eventually learn. It's not as if they have any kind of useful tutorial to teach them.

If you can't do that, at least give us the ability to target our teammates so we can defend ourselves.

And as far as being punished for teamkilling is concerned....think about this for a second. The moment a match starts, your greatest threat is the other team. When a new player unloads into your back, HE becomes the greatest threat at that moment. I don't know about anyone else, but the logical solution (and thus increase your odds of survival) is to remove that threat.

And since every single match I get in seems to be 50% new players (at a minimum), I end up fighting the Trial Mechs in 3PV more often than I do the enemy.

[MarineTech]

So how is the game to know who's fault the friendly fire is?

How is it going to determine whether the firer just decided to blaze away with a friendly in the line of fire, or from the victim not paying attention and just walking right into somebody else's line?

Remember the old military adage:

Friendly fire.... Isn't.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Until players stop getting rewarded for killing blows, Friendly Fire will always be an issue.

[Fut]

MarineTech, on 18 July 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Friendly fire.... Isn't.

Easy enough for all to remember...

There have only been a couple occasions where I've experienced Friendly Fire at the beginning of a match. Simply sending a team message "Check your fire, move to engage enemy", seemed to be enough to snap people out of it.

[Kiiyor]

MarineTech, on 18 July 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

So how is the game to know who's fault the friendly fire is?

How is it going to determine whether the firer just decided to blaze away with a friendly in the line of fire, or from the victim not paying attention and just walking right into somebody else's line?

Remember the old military adage:

Friendly fire.... Isn't.

I've had people rage at me, frothing at the mouth when they charge in front of me and take hits that were meant for an enemy. People really need to learn to walk BEHIND the mech stopped in front of them.

Once upon a time, I tried SAS selection, when I was WAAAAAAAY younger. I injured the hell out of myself, but before that, I saw 11 people kicked out of the course the instant they crossed someone's line of fire. You walk in front of ANYONE pointing their weapon at anything, and you're out.

Also, night time live fire withdrawls are terrifying.

[Willard Phule]

MarineTech, on 18 July 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

So how is the game to know who's fault the friendly fire is?

How is it going to determine whether the firer just decided to blaze away with a friendly in the line of fire, or from the victim not paying attention and just walking right into somebody else's line?

Remember the old military adage:

Friendly fire.... Isn't.

Really?

The game tracks the damage, kills, assists and damage done to the enemy....how hard would it be to have it track the same for friendlies?

lockwoodx, on 18 July 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

Until players stop getting rewarded for killing blows, Friendly Fire will always be an issue.

Not really....those of us that have actually been playing for more than a week know that you make more money with assists than kills. You blast someone, tear off a component and move on to the next guy....let the new players swarm the monkey, it's not as if it's not in their nature.

The way I see it, if a new player shoots you in spawn, he's declaring a Circle of Equals. During the match....that's up to you. If the Derp was walking around zoomed and shot you in the back, return with an equal grouping. If the Derp wanders into your field of fire, don't worry about raising your fire....let him take it in the back.

The ONLY way these guys are going to learn is to touch that hot stove...over and over and over....

[Monkey Lover]

I would like to see feedback on dmg done to team and I would like to see live feedback of normal dmg/team dmg. I think some times people dont know theyer shooting the arm off a team mate when pack fighting.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 July 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Monkey Lover, on 18 July 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

I would like to see feedback on dmg done to team and I would like to see live feedback of normal dmg/team dmg. I think some times people dont know theyer shooting the arm off a team mate when pack fighting.

How could they know? Most of them can't shoot without stopping and zooming in, then they forget how to unzoom when they move. They don't even see their teammates.

Good thing there's a tutorial that covers that, huh? I mean, it makes sense....new players are WELL trained by the tutorials, given a mid-range Elo score and put into games with everyone else. How could that POSSIBLY end in tragedy?

[Monkey Lover]

Willard Phule, on 18 July 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

How could they know? Most of them can't shoot without stopping and zooming in, then they forget how to unzoom when they move. They don't even see their teammates.

Good thing there's a tutorial that covers that, huh? I mean, it makes sense....new players are WELL trained by the tutorials, given a mid-range Elo score and put into games with everyone else. How could that POSSIBLY end in tragedy?

I killed a cda with a miss shot from 2 body width away im guess hit reg is a lot worse than we all think.On my screen the lasers might be missing their arms but the server is saying we're hitting it.

[WarHippy]

Willard Phule, on 18 July 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Can we PLEASE do something about the friendly fire? It's gotten worse since PGI "re-wrote" the matchmaker.

Right now, you get minor penalty for KILLING a teammate ( - 10k cbills and whatever XP)...but NOTHING for wounding them.

Since PGI has decided that brand new players are the same as "mid-range" experienced ones, we see a LOT of them unloading everything they've got into teammate's backs at spawn...without a "sorry" or "oops" or anything...and NOTHING happens to them. The OBVIOUS fix for this is to separate the PUG queue by skill (which has NOT been happening for a very, very long time now)...but it seems to me that us solo droppers simply don't matter to PGI.

The game has the inherent ability to track damage done to the enemy...that's how we earn the cbills....but it's not tracking what you do to friendlies.

Perhaps adjusting the amount you have deducted from killing and wounding a teammate should echo what you get for doing the same to the enemy might help...and, yes, I'm going to go out on a limb and just assume that the "new players" will eventually learn. It's not as if they have any kind of useful tutorial to teach them.

If you can't do that, at least give us the ability to target our teammates so we can defend ourselves.

And as far as being punished for teamkilling is concerned....think about this for a second. The moment a match starts, your greatest threat is the other team. When a new player unloads into your back, HE becomes the greatest threat at that moment. I don't know about anyone else, but the logical solution (and thus increase your odds of survival) is to remove that threat.

And since every single match I get in seems to be 50% new players (at a minimum), I end up fighting the Trial Mechs in 3PV more often than I do the enemy.

Penalizing people for doing damage to teammates is not a good idea. It happens far too often that someone decides to run across your field of fire and takes some hits, and I shouldn't be punished because the Timber Wolf behind me decides my Dire Wolf is too slow and jumps over me only to eat the majority of the alpha strike I had intended for down range.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I've noticed two things recently, one is that Clan burn times on weapons is leading to more friendly fire. For obvious reasons.

The other is CLRMs are a lot more prone to friendly fire, due to firing right when you lose a lock, or due to the bug they currently have.

They can end up flowing down right into a teammates back completely by accident.

[Bobzilla]

WarHippy, on 18 July 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Penalizing people for doing damage to teammates is not a good idea. It happens far too often that someone decides to run across your field of fire and takes some hits, and I shouldn't be punished because the Timber Wolf behind me decides my Dire Wolf is too slow and jumps over me only to eat the majority of the alpha strike I had intended for down range.

That's the thing, they are being penalized for friendly fire already, but have no way of judging. Damaging your teammates instead of the enemy really hurts the chance of success. If they just showed the stats at the end of the game people would see how much FF actually contributed to the enemy. It wouldn't even need to be a personal stat, just team FF, so as to show people to be more careful as it adds up.

[SmurfOff]

I think the biggest issue with FF situations is that the field of view / point of view from the cockpit is truly abysmal. For the best example of this, fire the lasers in the arms from an atlas, and try to figure out where they are coming from, and the angles vs. what is shown on the screen. Visually, it looks like my ER larges are typically coming from a mech or two away from me. This has caused me to splash damage on a friendly just because I thought there was a clean shot from a visual perspective.

It gets worse if you are straffing / torso twisting. I feel like my ballistics are coming out of a trailing mech most of the time..

[WarHippy]

Bobzilla, on 18 July 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

That's the thing, they are being penalized for friendly fire already, but have no way of judging. Damaging your teammates instead of the enemy really hurts the chance of success. If they just showed the stats at the end of the game people would see how much FF actually contributed to the enemy. It wouldn't even need to be a personal stat, just team FF, so as to show people to be more careful as it adds up.

While I agree in principal the reality is that you will have a bunch of people posting screen shots saying "see the people on my team are all idiots and the mm is purposefully making me lose because of all these inbred morons" even though I lot of the damage was probably unavoidable because of things like I mentioned above. I think it is fine as it is without punishing people for things out of their control, and without giving people something else to pin the blame on when they lose.

[Vassago Rain]

Right up until clan release, teamkilling and friendly fire were extremely rare. I've been doing more defensive teamkilling the past month than all of 2012 and 2013 combined.

It's everything, it seems. Extremely rude clan babbies, premads who get buttblasted that someone DARED use the command features to sort mechs, returning mad players with some kind of vendetta, recruit spammers, goldmech hunting.

[Mavairo]

I've not seen a whole lot of friendly fire in quite a long time.
Deliberate friendly fire at least.

An occasional brush is fine, it happens. We ALL wander into fire lanes once in a while. That being said when someone does it repeatedly I deal with it Commissar Style and give them a full alpha in the back. People won't learn unless they get fried by it. After the first opening shots, you KNOW where the fire lanes are or should of your allies. Blocking shots to "get the kill!", or "get closer so I can hit better!" is the kind of selfish idiocy that causes lost matches, so I just let em have it if they don't get clear of the sight picture of the target after a few seconds. Fortunately it's been months since I've had to give someone the hose again.

Edited by Mavairo, 18 July 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[Bobzilla]

WarHippy, on 18 July 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

While I agree in principal the reality is that you will have a bunch of people posting screen shots saying "see the people on my team are all idiots and the mm is purposefully making me lose because of all these inbred morons" even though I lot of the damage was probably unavoidable because of things like I mentioned above. I think it is fine as it is without punishing people for things out of their control, and without giving people something else to pin the blame on when they lose.

People are going to blame everything under the sun no matter what, less information causes that to happen more as without any basis, it's all opinion. Like the MM, if they showed every ones ELO, and they were all really close, there would be no more blaming the MM. More information creates a better picture of what is actually happening.

[Tom Sawyer]

I know for sure that i have been shot in the back by someone on my team that was pissed at me. I also know they where experienced enough to know that i would not die from the backshot but would have a nearly destroyed back. Since there other mechs next to him no way to prove who pulled the trigger. So I just put it down to a d$ck being one.

All part of the game, a holes will be a holes.

But the noobs who just love to pull the trigger at spawn to see what happens are worse. Seriously if you want to test your weapons FIND A WALL, or better yet go into the testing grounds. Set your macros, groupings ect before joining a game.

[TheNef]

An easy way to address this would to prevent all friendly fire causing damage until someone on your team is hit by enemy fire. This would prevent a lot of the accidental weapons discharge on start up.

[Vassago Rain]

Mavairo, on 18 July 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

I've not seen a whole lot of friendly fire in quite a long time.
Deliberate friendly fire at least.

An occasional brush is fine, it happens. We ALL wander into fire lanes once in a while. That being said when someone does it repeatedly I deal with it Commissar Style and give them a full alpha in the back. People won't learn unless they get fried by it. After the first opening shots, you KNOW where the fire lanes are or should of your allies. Blocking shots to "get the kill!", or "get closer so I can hit better!" is the kind of selfish idiocy that causes lost matches, so I just let em have it if they don't get clear of the sight picture of the target after a few seconds. Fortunately it's been months since I've had to give someone the hose again.

I've adopted a zero tolerance policy for teamkilling and obvious friendly fire. In the olden days, the match was lost the moment a premad decided to TK their ECM totem pole, but now that I can bring a 10 man, having to put down two annoying clan lights isn't quite as disruptive.



The most hilarious thing so far was a wolf three man of forumwarriors who were outright shocked that I actually know how to pilot assault gundams.