372 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Lights have the natural disadvantages of having little armor, internal health, and not being able to equip much in the way of weaponry and equipment. This has been balanced in the past by lights having extreme mobility. A good light pilot can choose when and where he or she wants to fight, can get to strategically-important positions quickly, and can often get a view of the developing battlefield before the rest of the team. In high-level play being "harder to hit" doesn't come into play, as a skilled opponent will be able to hit you regardless of how fast you're moving. To wit, lights have always been extremely vulnerable to high-damage alphas removing legs or side torsos in a salvo or two.

Despite this high-risk play style, many of PGI's balance changes have made lights even riskier and less rewarding to play.

Turrets make it so lights can't threaten the enemy team with a base cap.

No-min-range Clan LRMs mean lights aren't safe from guided weaponry up close.

Fall damage means lights will often take significant damage before the enemy is even engaged.

The jump jet nerf means that lights have a much harder time getting out of bad situations, and if you reserve fuel to prevent extreme leg damage you get very little jump jet height in the first place, even with 5+ jj.

Every single balance patch doesn't do anything to get rid of the oft-maligned "pop tart" but cripples high-mobility game play even further.

[Kushiel]

Indeed. Sure would be nice to get some bonus points for scouting and some objectives that give your side an advantage reachable with speed to help your team. ( say capture a base for airstrikes / artillery )

[Angel of Annihilation]

There is nothing wrong with light mechs. They have been and still are one of the most effective mech classes in the game. There is absolutely nothing that will cause an enemy team to fall apart faster than a couple of lights harassing the backfield, NARCing, TAGing and generally causing havoc.

The thing about light mechs is they require a very different play style than any other mech in the game and this play style is not going to appeal to everyone or even more than a small minority of players. It is just like every other game out there. The vast majority of players are drawn to big weapons, big armor and big numbers which is why we are so top heavy.

The only way you are going to draw more people to lights is if you make them massively OPed.

[MonkeyCheese]

If only they would undo the changes to light mech fall damage and jumpjets... = more light mechs

[Lefty Lucy]

Viktor Drake, on 19 July 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

There is absolutely nothing that will cause an enemy team to fall apart faster than a couple of lights harassing the backfield, NARCing, TAGing and generally causing havoc.

This is only true if they're massively incompetent. Relying on the enemy to be bad doesn't mean you're good.

[FupDup]

No, it isn't a surprise. The arm's race to bigger and superior robots is a problem inherited from every previous MW game as well as Battletech itself, and PGI's original Role Warfare idea to address this never came through...

[A banana in the tailpipe]

A lot of people will say the JJ changes were the cause, but actually its the SRM fix that has royally screwed lights.

Quad Six-Packs will take both legs off a spider in one shot if you lead them well enough.

[Lefty Lucy]

FupDup, on 19 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

No, it isn't a surprise. The arm's race to bigger and superior robots is a problem inherited from every previous MW game as well as Battletech itself, and PGI's original Role Warfare idea to address this never came through...

Yeah, but at least 1/4 of the team is forced to run easy targets now! Role Warfare!

[Biglead]

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

A lot of people will say the JJ changes were the cause, but actually its the SRM fix that has royally screwed lights.

Quad Six-Packs will take both legs off a spider in one shot if you lead them well enough.

Guess that happens when you try to brawl with light mechs.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 July 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Yeah, but at least 1/4 of the team is forced to run easy targets now! Role Warfare!

Pffft Lights will never be easy targets, but if they leg hum now they're asking for disaster. Lights have been pigeon holed into the scouting roles they should play... and no more of this 400+ damage crap from Raven 3Ls.

[Skyfaller]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 July 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Fall damage means lights will often take significant damage before the enemy is even engaged.

The jump jet nerf means that lights have a much harder time getting out of bad situations, and if you reserve fuel to prevent extreme leg damage you get very little jump jet height in the first place, even with 5+ jj.

This. The fall damage is idiotic when you see a stalker walk off a cliff 3x higher than itself and take no leg damage while the spider falls less than half its own height and takes leg damage. Personally I think lights should simply become immune to fall damage via upgrading the leg structure. Think of it as a new upgrade to the endo-steel / standard category except its an add-on that takes up 1 slot in each leg (no weight cost) and has the mech lose a noticeable amount of DECELERATION capability (not accel) which would make its recovery from jumps take a bit longer when using it.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Biglead, on 19 July 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

Guess that happens when you try to brawl with light mechs.

They COULD brawl before because nobody could hit them. Now... not so much.

Edited by lockwoodx, 19 July 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[Jin Ma]

Ditto on the fall damage

i think CLRM min range is fine though. maybe they can slow down the missile velocity

[Goose]

Lights were rendered obsolete as a combat unit by Clan pilots' gunnery skills, so it stands to reason there's an Elo ceiling for them.

The non-combat role of lights is unrewarding, thus difficult to level with; If there's a team that welcomes anyone playing such role regularly, then it's one of the teams' best-kept secrets …

[Lefty Lucy]

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Pffft Lights will never be easy targets, but if they leg hum now they're asking for disaster. Lights have been pigeon holed into the scouting roles they should play... and no more of this 400+ damage crap from Raven 3Ls.

I'm not that good, but I play with plenty of people who hits lights just as easily as anything else.

[Biglead]

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

They COULD brawl before because nobody could hit them. Now... not so much.

Nobody could hit them because of HitReg issues, not because of an abundance of light mech pilot skill.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 July 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

I'm not that good, but I play with plenty of people who hits lights just as easily as anything else.

Yep with a constant 29 ping I was/am Mr. Pulse laser before the missiles were fixed. Now lights hate me even more after.

Biglead, on 19 July 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

Nobody could hit them because of HitReg issues, not because of an abundance of light mech pilot skill.

That's exactly what I was getting at.

Edited by lockwoodx, 19 July 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Rhent]

Skyfaller, on 19 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

This. The fall damage is idiotic when you see a stalker walk off a cliff 3x higher than itself and take no leg damage while the spider falls less than half its own height and takes leg damage. Personally I think lights should simply become immune to fall damage via upgrading the leg structure. Think of it as a new upgrade to the endo-steel / standard category except its an add-on that takes up 1 slot in each leg (no weight cost) and has the mech lose a noticeable amount of DECELERATION capability (not accel) which would make its recovery from jumps take a bit longer when using it.

A stalker walking off a cliff 3X's higher than itself will take a 5% armor loss from that fall. If you want to check it, go to HPG Manifold, walk up top and then fall down to the lower level and you just lost 5% of your total armor and your legs are orange.

[Adiuvo]

Lights will be alright if they receive a boost to their turn rate. It's basically the only thing they need, so they can actually outmaneuver all of the heavier crap.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Adiuvo, on 19 July 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

Lights will be alright if they receive a boost to their turn rate. It's basically the only thing they need, so they can actually outmaneuver all of the heavier crap.

Rearm and Repair would go a LONNNNNNG way towards adding value back into Light Mechs. Too many players take Heavy and Assault mechs for how easy they are to pilot.