192 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

I went through the newbie phase in MWO and came out alright. It is definitely not as bad as Dota 2.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[Willard Phule]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

I went through the newbie phase and came out alright. It is not as bad as Dota 2.

You went through the newbie phase back in 2012...before the Elo "band-aid" got added, before Ghost Heat...before, well....everything.

[El Bandito]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

You went through the newbie phase back in 2012...before the Elo "band-aid" got added, before Ghost Heat...before, well....everything.

Ah, but there were Gauss Kitties, Splatcats, Streakcats, 4-6 PPC Stalkers, real LRMageddon, Raven 3L, group stomps, wtfbbq hit reg issues...many things that were broken in the old, that current newbies have the fortune of not experiencing.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[ShinVector]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Ah, but there were Gauss Kitties, Splatcats, Streakcats, 4-6 PPC Stalkers, real LRMageddon, Raven 3L, group stomps, wtfbbq hit reg issues...many things that were broken in the old, that current newbies have the fortune of not experiencing.

I think you missed the dreaded Black Screen, Yellow Screen and 8Bit Mode. LOL..

[ShinVector]

NextGame, on 22 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

I think some users should have a white flag as their signature banner, as clearly they give up very quickly when faced with any form of challenge that requires a little effort.

Current...
Kills / Death 2,110 / 729
Wins / Losses 822 / 577

Hmmm... Whatever you say..

Less META in SOLO Queue.. = More variety of builds and fun.

Edited by ShinVector, 22 July 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[InspectorG]

Why not a 'live' training grounds?

An un-timed match with no elo, where damage it temporary. Not a respawn, but if you die, a 10 sec cooldown, you get your mech back fresh. You would get to practice vs moving targets. Newbs could be shown the ropes there.

[El Bandito]

ShinVector, on 22 July 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

I think you missed the dreaded Black Screen, Yellow Screen and 8Bit Mode. LOL..

Ah yes, the rainbow screen and numerous bugs.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Ngamok]

Vassago Rain, on 22 July 2014 - 02:58 AM, said:

lol no

Yesterday, my little 2 man (both of us Davion) got put into a 10 man Davion group and we lost. I bet the other side thought we somehow were a 12 man. Please put us in the solo queue.

/sarcasm

[LordKnightFandragon]

Here is an interesting thought...

So when you make a group of 4 and it puts you in against another group of 4.....who fills in the other 8 slots? Is it not a bunch of solo puggers? Or is it a series of other 2-8 man groups?

The whole MM just sounds convoluted and weird atm...

[DeRazer]

InspectorG, on 22 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Why not a 'live' training grounds?

An un-timed match with no elo, where damage it temporary. Not a respawn, but if you die, a 10 sec cooldown, you get your mech back fresh. You would get to practice vs moving targets. Newbs could be shown the ropes there.

I like this idea. 1/10th of all C-Bill and XP gains just to make it not totally pointless.

Back to the OP however, I play in 3 man team and a 2 man team. 3 man's are fine in the group queue, especially with the last MM patch which makes it more likely you face similar teams made up of small groups.

2-mans however - well someone else posted that you "need 2-mans because of 10-mans" - unfortunately that's true but that is exactly the same argument as why they shouldn't be there! All too often as a 2-man you are just making up the numbers and if the big group don't tell u the plan it can be a pretty miserable 60 seconds/15 minutes..

I think it was on Twitter that Russ said that the effect of 2-mans is something like a +2% chance of a win in PUG match. Hardly significant - and probably dwarfed in a single match by the effect of the disco's or server lag we've had since the last couple of patches.

So, I don't think that small groups should be "punished" like they have been - they are not a vocal minority, they are not necessarily unskilled (if they were why would people object to them being in solo queue?), they just want to play with a friend or two for FUN without involving strangers! It is a game after all...

In any case, I'm sure PGI spend all their time monitoring the numbers, and if changes stop people playing (=spending) then you can be sure they'll make changes to keep them.

[Zanathan]

I sympathise with the OP - I had my first taste of 2 man tonight post the MM updates and got stomped. Definitely a much more vicious (and dare I say meta centric) game and I performed horribly when compared to my pugging life. However I expected as much but again sympathise with others who mainly 2 man.

I don't think having 2 mans in solo queues will make a huge difference, especially if it's restricted to just one 2 man per team however this will obviously cause group size issues for teams who are in need of 2 extra players to make the drop. I don't have a solution I'm afraid.

[Willard Phule]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Ah, but there were Gauss Kitties, Splatcats, Streakcats, 4-6 PPC Stalkers, real LRMageddon, Raven 3L, group stomps, wtfbbq hit reg issues...many things that were broken in the old, that current newbies have the fortune of not experiencing.

Touche, salesman. Well played.

Still, I've been around long enough to remember that the introduction of this whole "Elo" thing into the matchmaker was a "temporary fix." But...so was Ghost Heat...y'know?

If MW:O were a person, it'd be completely covered in band-**** and most likely be bedridden.

[Mystere]

I have no good solution in mind for this.

On the other hand, I think solo players should be given the option of joining the group queue. There are enough crazy ones that want to do so.

[Willard Phule]

InspectorG, on 22 July 2014 - 04:58 AM, said:

Why not a 'live' training grounds?

An un-timed match with no elo, where damage it temporary. Not a respawn, but if you die, a 10 sec cooldown, you get your mech back fresh. You would get to practice vs moving targets. Newbs could be shown the ropes there.

Dude.

If they can't figure out how to break up weapon convergence and put swappable ammo in for LBX ACs....I'm thinking this is beyond them.

Mystere, on 22 July 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

I have no good solution in mind for this.

On the other hand, I think solo players should be given the option of joining the group queue. There are enough crazy ones that want to do so.

Makes more sense than groups in the solo queue.

[Fut]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

I hear you, man. I got my son and best friend involved several months ago...both just gave up because of the constant roflstomping in the PUG queue. They never had a chance to learn how to play the game.

Don't understand this... Didn't the rest of us learn the game under practically the same circumstances?
No reason to quit because it's "too hard", suck it up and keep trying. Seems like a good life lesson for your son to learn.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

No groups in solo queue please.

I agree that the difference between solo play and grouped (even if only in two) is HUGE. Group queue, no matter what, is just on a higher level and things get brutal when compared to the solo queue.

Still, this is how it is. In group queue, no matter your numbers, things are harsher so you have to bring your better game. Communicate, use cover, don't rush, use cover, broadcast, use cover, mind ECM, use cover, use your best 'mechs, use cover. You'll win some and lose plenty, but that's how it should be until you become good enough to make a difference.

Leave the SOLO queue alone.

[Willard Phule]

Fut, on 22 July 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Don't understand this... Didn't the rest of us learn the game under practically the same circumstances?
No reason to quit because it's "too hard", suck it up and keep trying. Seems like a good life lesson for your son to learn.

I don't know about you, but I didn't learn the game under these circumstances. I've been playing since MW2, it wasn't hard for me to get the hang of MW:O.

No offense, but your "suck it up and keep trying" equates to a 12 year old trying to play football against a College team. It doesn't matter how hard he tries, it's not an even playing field.

When we need to get our 'mech on, we do it in TableTop now. Can't say as I blame the kid, it isn't as if there aren't a million better developed games out there for him to get into.

[Fut]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

I don't know about you, but I didn't learn the game under these circumstances. I've been playing since MW2, it wasn't hard for me to get the hang of MW:O.

Regardless of previous experience, you did learn MWO in the PUG Queue like the rest of us.
Maybe you had some knowledge of Mech movement and combat already, but this is something that can easily be communicated to others - especially if you're talking to them in person.

For the record, I used to play TT quite a bit with friends, but I've barely touched any of the MW video games before jumping onto MWO. It didn't take long to realize how the machine moves and handles, to realize that I'll melt quickly from moving into the wrong position, to realize when/where I should be attacking from...etc.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that learning the game isn't all that difficult, it's overcoming the opponents that gets tough - but that's the entire point of the game, and where all the fun is! Going up against a worthy opponent, and battling it out - win or lose, that's great ****.

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

No offense, but your "suck it up and keep trying" equates to a 12 year old trying to play football against a College team. It doesn't matter how hard he tries, it's not an even playing field.

Yikes...
Either you think that the average PUG in MWO is really ******* good, or you think your kid is really ******* bad.

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

When we need to get our 'mech on, we do it in TableTop now. Can't say as I blame the kid, it isn't as if there aren't a million better developed games out there for him to get into.

This is actually pretty cool. Being able to play TT with you son must be a blast.
Great to hear that the beloved nerdiness of BT is being passed on in it's truest form.

Edited by Fut, 22 July 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[NextGame]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

I don't know about you, but I didn't learn the game under these circumstances. I've been playing since MW2, it wasn't hard for me to get the hang of MW:O.

No offense, but your "suck it up and keep trying" equates to a 12 year old trying to play football against a College team. It doesn't matter how hard he tries, it's not an even playing field.

When we need to get our 'mech on, we do it in TableTop now. Can't say as I blame the kid, it isn't as if there aren't a million better developed games out there for him to get into.

And how exactly do you expect the game to handle the new player experience?

If you put a brand new player against the best players, they will get gubbed, same with against middle of the road players, and actually same against lower end players as at least those guys will generally have a grasp of how to control a mech, and therefore a brand new guy who doesnt understand weapon groupings or movement, or to press f4 should still generally die to them and in addition to that, the drop wont be a good example of how to play.

There is no good band to put a new player in at, and no reasonable way in which to nanny them that wouldnt be unfair on other people trying to play the game.

It's also not fair to allow any groups to drop in the solo queue if you follow current "logic". Why should your son, and by association, you, for example, be given an advantage and allowed to group and play against solo players whereas other players cannot. How is that fair on anyone else playing the game?

The same rules need to apply across the board for all players, not "you can do this because you are new, as can you because you just created a smurf account and therefore we think you are new, but that guy over there, he has played more than 25 games, no grouping in the solo queue for him!".

My preferred solution is to remove the segregation alltogether and advise vocal losers to shut up and get on with it. The only real alternative is to have queues structured as they are right now, which I would argue has no benefit to the game whatsoever, as overall it discourages groups, and without feeling able to play a repetitive game like this with your friends which I would argue is likely to degenerate the userbase's interest in the game over a medium/longer term.

[CeeKay Boques]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

A Instead, we have the "may the team with the fewest noobs win."

Real life warfare is surprisingly the same.

As is all competitive things.

We fought hard for the solo queue, keep it pure please, way less complaints that way. Do you really want to hear about the "The team Stacked with Duos vs my PuG team!!"