481 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

If we're rolling with the idea I presented above, I'd suggest that clans CAN NOT receive ammo resupply from on map supply depots. Anything stiffer would probably be too harsh.

LOL I can only dream that CW will have that kind of depth. Remember, factions are fighting for fronts. Not planets. Only Mercs are fighting for planets.

[Prezimonto]

Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Okay, then you have the solution you wanted right there. Faction (CW) queues, Public (Non CW) and Private. My point is that just like Private Matches get no advancement, Public (non CW) queues should advance slower than CW queues. Risk gets reward.

That said, when they bring back the traditional 1-4 player group queue like we used to have in addition to the Solo only and 4+ queue, I'll be ecstatic about the divisions.

And it'll only take 5 years to find a match.

[Sandpit]

Davers, on 28 July 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

PGI has said there will be the Faction Warfare Queue, Public Queue (which is what we have now),

I don't remember seeing this one. The last I saw the devs had talked about CW being the "public" queue with all matches counting to CW.

[Prezimonto]

Davers, on 28 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

LOL I can only dream that CW will have that kind of depth. Remember, factions are fighting for fronts. Not planets. Only Mercs are fighting for planets.

That's what I'm saying, I THINK they intend the public queue to be faction warfare, and mecrs to be the real CW where you take and hold planets.

[Davers]

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

They've also mentioned that the "public queue" will be essentially faction warfare (house vs. house with mecs to fill) and that CW will be merc life and the taking and holding of fringe planets.

At this point in time I've entirely unsure which direction they're planning on going (since I'm pretty sure they've stated both what you're quoting and what I'm quoting).

That was in the initial CW posts where they didn't even mention the word 'front'. The most recent CW info (from the launch party I think) presents a different picture.

[Sandpit]

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

That's what I'm saying, I THINK they intend the public queue to be faction warfare, and mecrs to be the real CW where you take and hold planets.

that's the way I understand it in the latest info we were given

[Kjudoon]

Quote

When we had R&R payouts were substantially higher than 100k. I don't see this as game breaking.

Besides, we already have players with several hundred million Cbills. CW is already broken.

You're right on the first part Davers. The payouts were higher... as they should be. Now add to it a dynamic economy where it balances C-Bills against scarcity, demand and access and watch prices skyrocket and plummet. the more available an item the cheaper it gets. The more popular, the more expensive. The more distant, the less available and more expensive it becomes. This means that those people with hundreds of millions of Cbills will be influencing the market greatly and prices will spike, just like in the real world, then demand will drop because nobody can afford them, then the prices will come back down. If a fad hits, that weapon/equipment/chassis will get very expensive. That curbs demand and the problem is solved.

A dynamic economy deals with players careless with their money... just like real life.

And once again, if you don't have a dynamic economy... CW is pointless.

[Squally160]

Davers, on 28 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

That was in the initial CW posts where they didn't even mention the word 'front'. The most recent CW info (from the launch party I think) presents a different picture.

And I think this is part of why these discussions go on like this. The devs keep posting different info about how CW will work. Sadly, until its here I am not sure we will ever fully know exactly how its going to function.

[Davers]

Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Okay, then you have the solution you wanted right there. Faction (CW) queues, Public (Non CW) and Private. My point is that just like Private Matches get no advancement, Public (non CW) queues should advance slower than CW queues. Risk gets reward.

That said, when they bring back the traditional 1-4 player group queue like we used to have in addition to the Solo only and 4+ queue, I'll be ecstatic about the divisions.

Dude, you are in the Seraphim with a 221 page recruitment thread! LOL Do you really need small units? The solo/group queue we have now is working. Just remember when they split CW up by Faction you will need all those Lone Wolf mercs you want to screw over to fill out teams.

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

That's what I'm saying, I THINK they intend the public queue to be faction warfare, and mecrs to be the real CW where you take and hold planets.

That was the original design they sold to the Founders. But if you watch the Launch Video they will have separate queues. After all, they need a place for all the IS pilots who bought Clan mechs (Clan pilots who own IS mechs) to use them. So not everything can be directly CW related.

[Sandpit]

Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

A dynamic economy deals with players careless with their money... just like real life.

And once again, if you don't have a dynamic economy... CW is pointless.

that's really what's at the basis for my idea. You've got to have an economy of some kind otherwise CW is just a leaderboard for those players, factions, units, etc. that have the highest KDR and/or W/L.

Part of the problem is that R&R was really poorly implemented and thought out when first introduced. I enjoyed it, but I also didn't spam, farm, or otherwise game the system and I didn't run high cost builds exclusively. I would also say no "partial" R&R. You repair your mech to its full capacity.

[Squally160]

Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

You're right on the first part Davers. The payouts were higher... as they should be. Now add to it a dynamic economy where it balances C-Bills against scarcity, demand and access and watch prices skyrocket and plummet. the more available an item the cheaper it gets. The more popular, the more expensive. The more distant, the less available and more expensive it becomes. This means that those people with hundreds of millions of Cbills will be influencing the market greatly and prices will spike, just like in the real world, then demand will drop because nobody can afford them, then the prices will come back down. If a fad hits, that weapon/equipment/chassis will get very expensive. That curbs demand and the problem is solved.

A dynamic economy deals with players careless with their money... just like real life.

And once again, if you don't have a dynamic economy... CW is pointless.

Id love a fully functioning economy. But, how will it effect players in arcade? How do we account and determine price fluctuations? Are we adding player trading? Is it just going to be "add x to the cost of y each time one sells"?

What youre talking about reminds me a lot of a really dumbed down EVE economy. I love EVE amaxing game and love the market there. Bit, without the ability to be producers ourselves, its hard to justify implementing small supply demand components.

Its possible, but hard to do.

The way id do it? Each front/planet/territory/whatever you can capture has the potential to produce x named goods each tick of ownership. You run an ac heavy type team? You go after the good ac producing areas and get discounts or unique items. If they are unique, they neex.to be able.to be permanently destroyed by some means (battle fatigue was mentioned and would work imho). Aswell, we need player trading. Those excess gins, do you sell them or stockpile them? Things like that.

Also, if it stays inside cw only, it wont hurt the current gsme mode. Either dont let those mods into arcade, or make each arcade battle you use one in generate huge amounts of fatigue on the part.

[Sandpit]

Davers, on 28 July 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

That was the original design they sold to the Founders. But if you watch the Launch Video they will have separate queues. After all, they need a place for all the IS pilots who bought Clan mechs (Clan pilots who own IS mechs) to use them. So not everything can be directly CW related.

I don't think you're going to get the splits you're thinking we are though. I think the queues you have now are what you'll have in the future.
private(premium and free)
public

That's it. Private matches are for casual players to chill out and not worry about things liek CW, W/L, planetary conquest, etc. They're free to use, you just have to have people to play them with.
Premium private is for player run leagues and tournaments
"Public" queue will be the CW queue.

I don't see them being able to split queues any more than that without adding extremely long wait times for every queue. It's no different than the "we want solo, casual group, competitive group, etc." queue threads. Most people realize that is a bit impractical for several reasons. Looking at the "big picture" I just don't know if I see them adding anymore queues. I think what we've got is what we'll have.

Squally160, on 28 July 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Id love a fully functioning economy. But, how will it effect players in arcade?

arcade what?

[Prezimonto]

Sandpit, on 28 July 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

I don't think you're going to get the splits you're thinking we are though. I think the queues you have now are what you'll have in the future.
private(premium and free)
public

That's it. Private matches are for casual players to chill out and not worry about things liek CW, W/L, planetary conquest, etc. They're free to use, you just have to have people to play them with.
Premium private is for player run leagues and tournaments
"Public" queue will be the CW queue.

I don't see them being able to split queues any more than that without adding extremely long wait times for every queue. It's no different than the "we want solo, casual group, competitive group, etc." queue threads. Most people realize that is a bit impractical for several reasons. Looking at the "big picture" I just don't know if I see them adding anymore queues. I think what we've got is what we'll have.


arcade what?

I think there will be a third queue for Merc planetary battles, at least based on what they talked about. But it might run as a special feature within the Private queue system.

[Sandpit]

Squally160, on 28 July 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Id love a fully functioning economy. But, how will it effect players in arcade? How do we account and determine price
Its possible, but hard to do.

The way id do it? Each front/planet/territory/whatever you can capture has the potential to produce x named goods each tick of ownership. You run an ac heavy type team? You go after the good ac producing areas and get discounts or unique items. If they are unique, they neex.to be able.to be permanently destroyed by some means (battle fatigue was mentioned and would work imho). Aswell, we need player trading. Those excess gins, do you sell them or stockpile them? Things like that.

Also, if it stays inside cw only, it wont hurt the current gsme mode. Either dont let those mods into arcade, or make each arcade battle you use one in generate huge amounts of fatigue on the part.

That's almost exactly how the mekwars campaign server for megamek handles it. Every "tick" (which is 15 minutes there) your faction "produces" components for mechs. The number of components produced is based on what planets you hold, what mech production facilities you control, etc.
When you have "produced" enough "parts", then a full mech is assembled to the faction hanger bays for people to purchase. There's also a black market available for higher prices if players want to buy specific mechs or their faction is hurting for supplies at the time.
It's really not as hard as some think to implement. It would be a little more challenging here because of the speed of the matches (megamek is a representation of the TT game so matches tend to be quite a bit longer there at times) but it's very doable.

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think there will be a third queue for Merc planetary battles, at least based on what they talked about. But it might run as a special feature within the Private queue system.

I'm thinking more along the lines of you drop in the CW queue for whatever faction you're currently contracted for.

[Davers]

Sandpit, on 28 July 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

I don't think you're going to get the splits you're thinking we are though. I think the queues you have now are what you'll have in the future.
private(premium and free)
public

That's it. Private matches are for casual players to chill out and not worry about things liek CW, W/L, planetary conquest, etc. They're free to use, you just have to have people to play them with.
Premium private is for player run leagues and tournaments
"Public" queue will be the CW queue.

I don't see them being able to split queues any more than that without adding extremely long wait times for every queue. It's no different than the "we want solo, casual group, competitive group, etc." queue threads. Most people realize that is a bit impractical for several reasons. Looking at the "big picture" I just don't know if I see them adding anymore queues. I think what we've got is what we'll have.


arcade what?

Go watch the launch party video. Private, Faction, Public. Now things might have changed yet again, but it is their most recent stance.

Prezimonto, on 28 July 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think there will be a third queue for Merc planetary battles, at least based on what they talked about. But it might run as a special feature within the Private queue system.

The Mercs will be using the Private queue for their set planetary battles.

[Squally160]

Arcade meaning non-cw stuff.

And why cant we add another que? Cw = big risk, big rewards. These are where you go for what id call the "real game"

Public matches = our que now. Deathmatch type games with less rewards, less punishments where you learn the gsme, build up a mech collection, and prepare for your jump into CW.

The best analogy to this is WT. Arcade/historic/ realistic. Just we drop historic and have arcade and cw only.

[Prezimonto]

Based on both your responses, then I believe Sandpit's analysis is correct.

We'll have two queues with the advent of CW. They'll be Public and private with shiny new names, and very little else.

how depressing.

Edited by Prezimonto, 28 July 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Sandpit]

Davers, on 28 July 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Go watch the launch party video. Private, Faction, Public. Now things might have changed yet again, but it is their most recent stance.


The Mercs will be using the Private queue for their set planetary battles.

Yes but I think the "public" will be CW
Faction will be Merc
and Private is well private lol

I COULD be wrong but based on everything else they've said and done (they've dropped some tidbits here and there since the launch) I just think everyone is working under a misconception. With "every match" counting towards CW, I don't see how the "public" queue wouldn't be CW

[Sandpit]

Squally160, on 28 July 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Arcade meaning non-cw stuff.

And why cant we add another que? Cw = big risk, big rewards. These are where you go for what id call the "real game"

Public matches = our que now. Deathmatch type games with less rewards, less punishments where you learn the gsme, build up a mech collection, and prepare for your jump into CW.

The best analogy to this is WT. Arcade/historic/ realistic. Just we drop historic and have arcade and cw only.

Same reason you can't add queues for
stock
casual groups
competitive groups
and a few others that have been asked for over the last week or so.

We already have what many consider "too long" for wait times. Any more dilution of the players across more queues would just make that worse. I think a lot have forgotten that CW was (and as far as I've read and heard still is) supposed to be the "normal" way to play MWO. We've just played so long without it that we've come to accept what we have now as the "norm".
Everything PGI has said about CW implies that CW matches will be the "norm", which is exactly why they have private matches now. I also firmly believe that they had to create the private queues and such before they could implement CW for this very reason. The private matches give those players who could care less about CW a way to play the game without participating in CW.

[Squally160]

Sandpit, on 28 July 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Yes but I think the "public" will be CW
Faction will be Merc
and Private is well private lol

I COULD be wrong but based on everything else they've said and done (they've dropped some tidbits here and there since the launch) I just think everyone is working under a misconception. With "every match" counting towards CW, I don't see how the "public" queue wouldn't be CW

And see, I hope thays wrong. Id like to see:
Public - as is now.
Faction: high risk/reward que with real, tangible results on a campaign map for each faction (this is where rnr belongs and I fully believe is mandatory.
Private: no reward/risk custom games.