Kjudoon, on 28 July 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:
Are you now demanding rules that prevent logical outcomes? Is this where we're going?
Teamwork works so it's OP, let's nerf it?
Range works, it's OP, let's nerf it?
You're right, this is not a "reality simulator", but it is based on the principles of our physical universe. That means just like the physics engine, you want it to be believable. I want the economics system to be believable because it controls horsecrap like what we are seeing right now.
I'm seeing a lot of people crying "You're punishing your new players" but these same people are usually the first in line to say this game must be twitch based and screw the new players who can't L2P. Now a strategic element that might penalize their personal ability to profit from careless play comes about and "it's the ECONPOCALYSE! DO NOT WANT! IT R HURT NOO PLAYURZ! NO MAKE ME THINK OF CONSUQUENZES!"
Yes, that was hyperbole, but the sentiment was on target. You can't say on one hand, LRMs should be nerfed because they're not twitch based and that is the basis for what should be made good in MWO while turning around and saying that you're for preventing the new player from learning the game easier. It just seems... well, hypocritical. If you want this a game of 'skill', by gum! Let's make it a REAL game of skill and that includes out of cockpit stuff too.
Take the NFL. Right now so many people are focusing so hard on the rules on the field, they do not want to think of what goes on at the sideline or the owners box, or the offseason or even at the team level. Heck! it used to be common for football teams to go bankrupt and fall out of the league because of bad business choices coupled with bad play.
This is something that is the core around what happens in MW. Only the Factions have been immune to that to a certain degree because of their monolithic size, but Merc Companies are often one bad battle away from extinction. Without consequence, CW has no meaning. Without CW, MWO has no reason to exist except as an amusing little diversion. If that's all you want, then this discussion does not concern you. Ignore CW when it comes out and play in 'sandbox mode' and just do stompy stompy mechs a la private matches or something where you can pretend to be Mechbo the Solaris VII champion. But just as those sports heroes are not real heroes, do not expect those of us who want an immersive roleplay and strategic experience to bow to you on this. Be a gladiator in the arena. Many of us want more.
And you're right, there is no 1p game here. There SHOULD be, but there isn't. I also know companies who have been practicing for the start of CW and contracts and other stuff to become featured units and movers and shakers in the game. Some have gone to some crazy lengths outside of the game to try and insure that. They have conquest on their mind, and small minded arena play is not going to satisfy them.
As for anyone's POV, we're all trapped by it, and it has little to do with my W/L ratio the same it has little to do with my KDR which does nothing but allow ego to be hung upon it. I've yet to see a good argument against Sandpit's OP suggestions by anyone yet. Crying like Mrs. Lovejoy "won't someone please think about the newbies" over and over again, is not valid. It's rank emotionalism from people who wouldn't give two farts to helping them on the battlefield with improving weapon systems that aren't twitch based or breaking the current meta. An underlying cause of all this receives a proposal that would help them in the long run comes out... que the freakout.
Oh, and the solutions Sandpit proposes will cause real money to flow into PGI's coffers... and let me tell you, they'll listen to that the loudest.
Wow, you are really going off the rails here. I think you need a few more random things to pull in. Football, really? LOL
Anyway, not sure where you are getting your conclusions to what I said, I think you went way out in left field here. I'm going to skip the entire middle of your post because it really doesn't make much sense to me, jumps around way to much.
To answer your last question, there have been many counter posts to the original topic, you just don't agree so that's different than being valid. A bit of summary for those:
- punishes people for playing the game
- easy to abuse, many examples were evident from beta
- does't "fix" any issue
- this type of model does not work well in a FTP game
- doesn't bring much depth to the game other than forcing you to spend money and adding a mini-game to the mech lab
- getting 150,000 cbills for a win is no different than getting 200,000 cbills for a match and paying 50,000 cbills to R&R, it just adds that extra step.
- salvage could never be done properly as that could completely negate buying mechs/components
R&R works well with a game where you are the centerpiece. AKA: single-player or coop style games. This game it's you and 11 people vs. 12 other people. In most cases 23 people could care less about your goals, they are just there to shoot stuff. Often they are more than happy to rat you out and make sure you die as violently as possible if it means waiting five less minutes.
From a personal point of view, I love R&R. I've loved it since the original mechwarrior in the mid 80s. I got so proficient at that system that I could headshot a battlemaster and repair the thing very cheaply. I've loved the R&R/salvage aspect of the game since then. Really REALLY loved salvage in the original tabletop game. My atlas was a hard-won salvaged chassis that I fixed up. Unfortunately I don't see a way add it into this game without breaking the core and losing/angering players. They will be much better served by finishing up community warfare and actually get someone that isn't arcade shooting into the game.
6
). Most of them are casual players who do not belong to any 12man company and play in lances or PuGs. Out of our 9 companies, only 2 of them would be termed "Competitive" like we often toss the word around.
