481 replies to this topic

[zortesh]

God no. repair and refit would just be painful and fun killing.... not to mention n very punishing for new players... Endlessly grinding cbills in trailmechs so they can attempt to learn and pilot there new fancy customized mech they built.

Now If they added some sort of supplies/r&r system to community warfare id be okay with that, especially if its a shared pool for the team so it might dischourage having all cerll or ppc+ac5 builds becuase you'd literally not have that many spares.

Artificially extending the grind to ridiclous extremes to buy new mechs with repair and refit is just bad, its one of the reasons i don't even remember the login to my world of tanks account.

Edited by zortesh, 26 July 2014 - 04:45 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 26 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Lastly, Joe M loves to talk about his Atlas LRM boat, and how during R&R he made tons of Cbills. If it doesn't limit assault mechs with ammo dependent load outs, then what will it actually be targeting?

You exaggerate my claims. I said I made profits. I did not say I made tons of CBills. I did also point out that running a Centurion was better for my bank account as repairs were cheaper.

[Roland]

Sandpit, on 26 July 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Salvage:
Here's where things really get interesting. Instead of the current salvage system we have, we need it to be shifted to an actual salvage system. Instead of receiving cbills for salvage, players have a % chance to actually salvage equipment. Component destruction = more chances to salvage and the techs also add a % to salvage as well. Players could then choose to keep the salvaged item or sell it back for the regular "used" item price.

In order to salvage something, you'd have to NOT destroy it.
This is actually one of the cooler elements of salvage, which you should not get rid of... Players who kill a mech cleanly should be rewarded for their precision through higher salvage.

Salvage rewards should be divied up among team members based on percentage of damage done to a target before it died. If you did most of the damage, then you get most of the chance to salvage what's left.

[kuangmk11]

Roland, on 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

In order to salvage something, you'd have to NOT destroy it.
This is actually one of the cooler elements of salvage, which you should not get rid of... Players who kill a mech cleanly should be rewarded for their precision through higher salvage.

Salvage rewards should be divied up among team members based on percentage of damage done to a target before it died. If you did most of the damage, then you get most of the chance to salvage what's left.

Damage that contributed to the kill. Damage that did not contribute to the kill should be discarded from the calculation to further encourage the first point.

[Augustus Martelus II]

And something i would like to add is: you could buy quantities of certain ammo.... depending on the faction and planet, the price wouldnt be the same + If you buy a big quantities you could make an economy of 10-20 or 30% depending on how much ammo you buy and etc.

[Joseph Mallan]

Augustus Martelus II, on 26 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

And something i would like to add is: you could buy quantities of certain ammo.... depending on the faction and planet, the price wouldnt be the same + If you buy a big quantities you could make an economy of 10-20 or 30% depending on how much ammo you buy and etc.

Heck I just want to be able to sell my never going to be used again ammo types.

[Augustus Martelus II]

oh and the salvage stuff....you don t need to completly destroy a mech to have ''kills'' let say that you could get more points by putting a mech out of combat (ex legging it and removing is weapons)

Exemple: colision come back. you leg a mech and you shoot it, it fall = he cant get back on is legs (since one leg is disable) or they could add some other mechanism to make it more real. Ex you can make some components and joints melt with lasers...so you don t need to have a leg component completely destroy to not be able to use it.

I don t know but i think this game have enought details that they could make those kind of realistic damage. Or an other kind of damage, you shoot it make the mech go critical, the engine goes on a fatal failure....the mech shut down....it aint destroy but i have been put out of combat. The shooter gain a ''disable mech point'' in is statistic instead of a destroy mech and the other player well its game over but he aint dead.

And i would like to see chunk of mechs falling of because of excessive damage, holes trough the mech even whole penetration made by high caliber...its possible to make.

Edited by Augustus Martelus II, 26 July 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[Augustus Martelus II]

I know that they would need to add a lot of virtual mechanics inside the mechs but damn imagine all the difference....and Oh if you always do huge alphas....the penality would be a lot more brutal ex: melting lot of components, even your weapons, exploding ammo and etc...so for those huge alpha fans it would be good luck.

[Augustus Martelus II]

anda finally, maybe they could put the normal armor values...+ weapons values wich mean if you stand alone on the open field....you ll get crush easily

[Impyrium]

I'd like to see this in CW, as to still have a mode (deathmatch) where new players can thrive. As I've said before, I think it'd be best to have CW inventories entirely separate from deathmatch.

The way I see it, assaults should be more expensive to run. They are giant, much heavier pieces of equipment, after all. I can understand the 'unfairness' of that in deathmatch, but again, in CW it seems entirely reasonable.

[Henree]

new players cab join a hous guard which provides them with a mech (stock) and income, and repairs are taken care of by that house?
wins result in higher rank and better mech or equipment like an achievement system.
mercs get the full on hard on with r&r salvage and lucrative contracts

Edited by Henri Schoots, 26 July 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Tezcatli]

R&R and salvage should be for Merc groups only. If you're fighting as a grunt with a faction. Why would you foot the cost of battle damage and get to salvage loot? But it makes sense that a merc group would have to do that. That way pugs and new players can play factions and not be put at a disadvantage.

[Y E O N N E]

War Thunder has R&R for the planes. The planes are automatically repaired and re-armed for free after a certain amount of time, but you can have the game also automatically deduct from your stockpile of earned currency to do it instantly after every match. The price is high enough to matter, but low enough that it incentivizes you to keep playing and to keep winning...because winning increases your rate of income significantly.

I like the idea of repair and re-arm if it is implemented similarly.

[ManDaisy]

I think repair and rearm is a good concept however ... a few things.

1) Repair and Rearm flat out will not work for pug matches. Simply because there is no incentive to cooperate if those who contribute more take more damage or have to spend more on ammo. Close beta has shown people will run with no armor, no weapons, or be a flat out be a detriment to the team play style wise, if they can avoid repair cost but still somehow win (freeloading).

This can be solved by having these people join (house factions or local militai), whom simplify the payment method into a set amount of income per match with no repairs to give them no reason to freeload.

2) Repair and rearm would work for 100% pure (merc corp) team play ... if profits were paid to the merc corp, and repairs were deducted to the merc corp, then distributions of the difference, everyone would be treated equally.

Freeloaders would be taken care of internally 1) because there is no point due to equal distributions)
2) because they would be kicked out.

3) Salvaging whole mechs or lose mechs flat out wont work for this game model. If merc corps had an inventory system, then maybe salvage in the form of parts + cbills could work. The extra parts being a sort of flair to the base c-bill aspects. The simplified (house factions) would simple not have a storage, paying only a simplified income.

Mainly it all comes down to setting up two methods of reward systems.

1) A simplified reward system with no negative or positives for casual players. (house units or unaffiliated local militia)
2) A complex reward system with both negatives and positives for organized (merc groups)
3) - the big win big lose (pirate groups) that will always be a dream

Edited by ManDaisy, 26 July 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 July 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

You exaggerate my claims. I said I made profits. I did not say I made tons of CBills. I did also point out that running a Centurion was better for my bank account as repairs were cheaper.

I made bank, I was making a medium mech every three games.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

R&R feels like a necessary piece for Community Warfare and extended realistic campaigns; so I look forward to its return, as long as new players are not punished by R&R.

For me, the best way to have this back, as I've read suggested before (so I'm being a parrot here repeating other ideas), is to have:

• one queue for new players (like an Academy),
  
• a solos queue (no change from current),
  
• a random group queue (that could allow solos to opt into, maybe, otherwise keep as-is),
  
• and a new more complex and organized Factions queue for Community Warfare.

[meteorol]

Using cbills as balance tool while PGI SELLS cbills for money (hero mech and premium time= 80% bonus, Cbills packs, champion cicada)? You want a balance tool that can be nullified completely by simply opening your wallet. That is pretty much the purest form of p2w you can get.

R&R as balance tool under said circumstances? Nopenopenopenope.

[monk]

My thoughts and tweaks to help resolve some issues in the discussion. I think not having R&R affects the game in a negative way. A well balanced R&R system would encourage players to run more varied builds and could allow for weapons to perform in more distinct ways. Munitions based weapons could be brutal on the battlefield, but carry an inherent cost above the standard energy weapons. LRMS could be powerful and alarming but carry a cost that prevents players from bringing 2000+ rounds into every match. The benefits from a cohesive R&R system could be significant.

Short version: Mechs will automatically repair and rearm over time or players can spend mc/cbills to quickly repair and rearm.

Long version:

REPAIR: After battle, a mech needs to be repaired if it has taken damage. To avoid ruining the value of a player to a team, in the system we have now, a player cannot launch a mech with any damage. (This could be altered for CW, depending on how CW ends up being implemented)

A damaged mech can be repaired via mc/cbills or left to repair on its own over time. Each piece of mech gear has it's own timer and can also be "instant repaired" via the mc/cbill option in the mechlab. There is a repair order that is always followed, so you know what will be fixed next on a mech (the order isn't really that important, but it could be something like CT, RT, LT, head, RA, LA, RL, LL) The amount for the average fully trashed mech to self repair should not be prohibitively long (I would suggest a mech with 0% on everything takes 24 hours - this would be almost impossible, but I've had a mech with 7% at the end of a battle, so I know someone has probably done better). This allows players who don't have as much time to play and salvage each day a way to get back into the battle the next day without having to grind for cbills. It also allows players who perform better to keep their favorite mechs on the front line more or less forever.

REARM: All mechs which use ammunition or other expendable items will need to rearm after a fight. Players with ammunition stockpiles will have their mechs instantly rearm after a battle. Any additional ammunition needs will occur costs like the system for repairs. Players can instantly rearm by paying an mc/cbill cost or simply wait for the delay timer on each ammo storage location to count down.

R&R NOTES: Trial mechs never need to repair or rearm. (This gives all players a base of mechs to play with that always are "decent" and can help them gather resources and salvage). Players still receiving cadet bonus have their mechs repaired nearly instantly, but still get to see the repair and rearm system in play so they can come to understand it. Their cadet bonus is displayed and easily identifiable (e.g. "Repair speed +100% due to Cadet Bonus (15 games left)").

This R&R system is designed to support both casual and hardcore players. Those with more skill and time to play will be able to quickly refield mechs, while those with less experience/skill and more limited playtime will not be stuck running trial mechs while their hard earned mechs sit in the mechlab under never ending repairs.

Naturally some tweaking of the current rewards system would be necessary to ensure that R&R isn't creating issues on either side, but the rewards system is already overdue for adjustment.

SALVAGE: Players all gain cbills based on their performance as they do now. Additionally, parts of a disabled/destroyed enemy mechs have a chance to be salvaged by the winning team. Each player on the winning side gets a salvage roll at the end of the battle. What you get is somewhat random. Good rolls will get you mostly undamaged parts of high value. Low rolls will get you damaged parts of lesser value or possibly even ammunition (you could easily tie in this salvage reward to various factors in the battle that we already use: assists, tag bonus, etc.) Parts gained via salvage go into your inventory and can be equipped to appropriate mechs and repaired as per normal or sold off for extra cbills. Extremely rare chances to salvage a mech chassis could also exist These type of super rare, but valuable rewards will be exciting to players and give them extra incentive to try to win matches. I do not think modules should ever be salvageable.

Mechs gained via salvage are stripped of all parts and are considered "in storage" until they have a mech bay to be placed in. While in storage they cannot be modified in any way.

MECHBAY: While not necessary, I believe expanding the mechbay would add an element of economy management to the game. I would suggest that players could hire more engineers/repair teams for their mechlab. Inherent in this would be the ability for players to queue up their mechs so you can choose which is next to be repaired/rearmed. The ability to expand on this gameplay element could be significant (e.g. Repair teams could be assigned to specific mechbays - this would allow players to hire the best mechanics to work on your favorite chassis and thereby get them back into play faster.)

[Henree]

awesome! though I would say, if you don' t have a mechbay you have to sell the salvaged mech. That way PGI can sell mechbays and make a profit that way, mechbays would have to become more expensive.

[Shredhead]

R&R was bad, is bad and always will be bad! Especially the aspect of "balancing" through R&R costs is an atrocity. And btw, in which Elo hell are "poptarts" still a problem?