481 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

But Davers has a point. Even if we get a good functional R&R system, the play style WILL change. But would it be a bad thing? That is the big question.

When I finally had a computer that could handle running MW:O (Thanks yet again Murphy's Law) I was able to but a Centurion, and grind it. Surprisingly I made more money per match due to lower R&R costs. So if I wanted to have more money I played my Cent, If I wanted more firepower, I dragged out my Atlas. The same thinking will likely begin to happen if we get R&R again.

Also it added depth, just not a lot of it in my opinion. It made me responsible for my actions. Something many don't want to do.

there's a reason governments, countries, military, etc. dont' sen out the biggest and heaviest and most sophisticated equipment they own into every, single, fight. This is why.

[Cimarb]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 29 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

All of the above..
+
I really like how you unlock decals for your tanks in war thunder. PGI needs to figure out what images to give away, what people can earn, what people can buy and which ones people have to unlock before they can even buy it.

Yeah, that is a whole other discussion, though. PGI is really hurting their pocketbooks by not allowing decals, even if they are pre-made ones like War Thunder had...

[VanillaG]

The biggest problem with the old R&R system is that it was implemented literally. If anything was damaged you had to replace it at full price. If R&R took the approach of something being inoperable instead of destroyed you could make the costs a fraction of the list price. The model that I came up with is Armor, Structure, and Ammo cost 5% of the mechlab value and all other equipment 0.5% of mechlab value. When you look at the Direwolf Prime you get a cost breakdown like this:

Weapons- 15400
Ammo- 2583
Engine- 24500
Armor and Structure- 4875
Total - 47358

So if the every piece of the direwolf was destroyed, the max that you would pay in R&R is 47,358 which would mean on a loss you would most likely earn a tiny amount but your never lose money. This would prevent the wild swings that we saw with the old system where one minute you up 10mil and then lost it all in the next couple of matches. With this system the most you would be out would 20-30k at most but most likely something smaller and even more likely you would still have some earnings.

Edited by VanillaG, 29 July 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Sandpit]

VanillaG, on 29 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

The biggest problem with the old R&R system is that it was implemented literally. If anything was damaged you had to replace it at full price. If R&R took the approach of something being inoperable instead of destroyed you could make the costs a fraction of the list price. The model that I came up with is Armor, Structure, and Ammo cost 5% of the mechlab value and all other equipment 0.5% of mechlab value. When you look at the Direwolf Prime you get a cost breakdown like this:

Weapons- 15400
Ammo- 2583
Engine- 24500
Armor and Structure- 4875
Total - 47358

So if the every piece of the direwolf was destroyed, the max that you would pay in R&R is 47,358 which would mean on a loss you would most likely earn a tiny amount but your never lose money. This would prevent the wild swings that we saw with the old system where one minute you up 10mil and then lost it all in the next couple of matches. With this system the most you would be out would 20-30k at most but most likely something smaller and even more likely you would still have some earnings.

I'd like to see complete and total replacement for an elite assault clan mech being destroyed cost a little more than that but you get the idea. It doesn't have to be a system that causes great losses to an player's earnings but there's GOT to be some sort of consequences

[VanillaG]

Sandpit, on 29 July 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

I'd like to see complete and total replacement for an elite assault clan mech being destroyed cost a little more than that but you get the idea. It doesn't have to be a system that causes great losses to an player's earnings but there's GOT to be some sort of consequences

But it is not being destroyed, it just being knocked out of the fight. Think of an engine being "destroyed" as knocking out the water pump. The engine does not work but you only need to replace the water pump to get the engine going again. A laser being destroyed is the power cable being severed and a missle/ac being destroyed is the feed mechanism being disabled.

Keep in mind those numbers could be lowered based on faction availablity of the chassis and components. Faction ranking might mean you get a small amount of free R&R, say 5000 cbills, to lower the cost. You could even include your tech idea for lowering the cost even more. That number might represent a rookie FedSun Direwolf pilot but a veteran Clan Wolf pilot might pay half that amount.

[Sandpit]

VanillaG, on 29 July 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

But it is not being destroyed, it just being knocked out of the fight. Think of an engine being "destroyed" as knocking out the water pump. The engine does not work but you only need to replace the water pump to get the engine going again. A laser being destroyed is the power cable being severed and a missle/ac being destroyed is the feed mechanism being disabled.

Keep in mind those numbers could be lowered based on faction availablity of the chassis and components. Faction ranking might mean you get a small amount of free R&R, say 5000 cbills, to lower the cost. You could even include your tech idea for lowering the cost even more. That number might represent a rookie FedSun Direwolf pilot but a veteran Clan Wolf pilot might pay half that amount.

Whatever you call it, I'd still like to see a complete rebuild cost a bit more, that's just my personal opinion on it though, a sliding scale based on something like damage received, component destruction, etc. would be great.

We have players with dozens upon dozens of stockpiled weapons. I personally have at least 50 LLs. What's the point? Component destruction means nothing except getting a bonus to a player's cbills. Component destruction should mean just that, it's destroyed and needs to be replaced. There's zero consequences for things like that. You could even offset it based on performance.
Got completely nuked that last match? That's ok, you did 400 damage, took out 2 enemy mechs, got 6 more assists, and performed well. You get a performance bonus based on overall match score or some such that helps offset the repair fees. Make having the highest match score mean something. That also helps counter the fears of "noone will fight" because of R&R fees. (I played during the original R&R system and I never had a problem finding a fight but I digress)

VanillaG, on 29 July 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

Keep in mind those numbers could be lowered based on faction availablity of the chassis and components. Faction ranking might mean you get a small amount of free R&R, say 5000 cbills, to lower the cost. You could even include your tech idea for lowering the cost even more. That number might represent a rookie FedSun Direwolf pilot but a veteran Clan Wolf pilot might pay half that amount.

I think that would be a great way to make LP useful as well. Use it to help offset those fees as well.

[Vassago Rain]

You will never, ever see RnR again.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 29 July 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

You will never, ever see RnR again.

I hope you are wrong.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

I hope you are wrong.

I'm not.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 29 July 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm not.

You never know.

Is it me or does that look like a panzified Judge Dredd?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 July 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Tombstoner]

Sandpit, on 29 July 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

there's a reason governments, countries, military, etc. dont' sen out the biggest and heaviest and most sophisticated equipment they own into every, single, fight. This is why.

This is also echoed in the lore. mechs are rare with some versions almost being unique. You dont willingly toss such pieces of equipment away haphazardly like every match in MWO ever played. you field assaults basically for planetary invasions. Other wise you go for the 20 ton Bug mechs.

I could support R&R, techs and salvage only in the context of CW. it just doesn't add any fun into the pug game. it just cancels out the rewards. paying for ammo would force more people to use energy weapons.

Some may think of this as a good thing but it would force players to buy passes for bonus cash in order to use FLD weapons just to be competitive with the current ppc+ac meta. where as a well designed CW meta game will provide way to simulate the succession wars military infrastructure for paying for and manufacturing mechs ammo, armor, weapons. reasons to attack critical resource locations, manufacturing hubs and so on.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Is it me or does that look like a panzified Judge Dredd?

Yeah, that character was created in 1990 for F-Zero, Dredd's been around since 1977.

[Malleus011]

I'd be another happy to have R&R as an integral part of CW. Give me a reason to bring my Locust/Commando/Blackjack to the weekly skirmish and roll out the Battlemaster for the weekend's big push.

[Sandpit]

Malleus011, on 29 July 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'd be another happy to have R&R as an integral part of CW. Give me a reason to bring my Locust/Commando/Blackjack to the weekly skirmish and roll out the Battlemaster for the weekend's big push.

agreed

[Sybreed]

R&R is just like stock queue. The die hard fans want it badly, but the supposedly "competitive hardcore" will block everything.

[Sandpit]

Sybreed, on 29 July 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

R&R is just like stock queue. The die hard fans want it badly, but the supposedly "competitive hardcore" will block everything.

totally different basis there. nobody talking about r&r is asking to split the player base. CW is coming, that's the simple truth. How PGI plans on handling the implementation? Nobody knows. We're offering up ideas FOR CW. That's all. Huge difference.

[Squally160]

Sandpit, on 29 July 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

totally different basis there. nobody talking about r&r is asking to split the player base. CW is coming, that's the simple truth. How PGI plans on handling the implementation? Nobody knows. We're offering up ideas FOR CW. That's all. Huge difference.

And as much as I've argued against R&R, if its not in CW in SOME form, imma be pissed.

CW needs to be separate from what we have now in terms of ques. But sadly, we have mixed dev views on what CW will be. It keeps changing and I have zero faith the final product will be what they talk about now.

Having said that, CW needs BRUTAL R&R. Im almost for the idea of week-long campaigns. You get x mechs, and thats it. They get blowed up? hope you got the cbills to repair that. otherwise youre SOL.

[The Blood God]

Sandpit, on 26 July 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

So, in the course of another thread this idea was kicked around. I don't take full credit for it as many others have suggested similar over the years and I've just kind of combined them all and refined it a bit.

Let's start with R&R:

Put R&R fees back into the game. I know I know, but sand, we already don't earn much! Well I disagree with that but I understand some feel that way so, in order to counter that, you boost earnings slightly and reduce the R&R fees a bit.

so we earn extra money that then gets taken off us seems so pointless,

and i like stock mechs i try to complete basic skills before changing a mech apart from the armor it builds a nice cash pile to customize with and thats half the fun

i'd be pretty annoyed if i took an expensive mech out and lost because what your suggesting is that of the loss money (25,000-100,000) c-bills i'd have to pay some/all/all+some banked c-bills

although if it was capped at 25,000 i could live with no win no spoils although i think i'd be leagaly entitled to my 50% bonus for prem time so if i died with out doing anything all i'd receive is 25000 for the loss +12500 prem time bonus repair bill maximum of 25000= something i don't really like but think would be the only to fairly balance it without screwing people to hard for using their hard earned custom chassis

[Joseph Mallan]

Praetor Knight, on 29 July 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

Yeah, that character was created in 1990 for F-Zero, Dredd's been around since 1977.

Thanks for the info... I was reading comics just before Dredd Dropped!

[Joseph Mallan]

Sybreed, on 29 July 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

R&R is just like stock queue. The die hard fans want it badly, but the supposedly "competitive hardcore" will block everything.

You would think that faction would SUPPORT a good R&R component!

I know I do!