77 replies to this topic

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Heydiddly, on 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Sorry, but that is just arrogant, naive BS. I'm interested in k/d, I make a point of holding each mech to a 1.0 ratio or better, it's a personal standard I hold myself to (Yup, even Locusts!). If I can't manage it, I take it as a sign that I probably need to re-evaluate my build or playstyle with that mech. It's a useful metric to me.

The whole purpose of KDR is to see how well you did. Worrying about your KDR will alter how you engage the enemy. Is that an assumption? Yes, but it's a fair one to make. Can you flatly state that it won't? No, because you yourself say you try and maintain a certain KDR. Trying to maintain a KDR means, to some degree, it affects how you fight, where you fight, when you fight, and who you fight, all irregardless of what the team is currently doing. If you were to talk about Win/Loss then it would be about the team.

Heydiddly, on 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Does that mean I'm always "sitting somewhere safe taking potshots at people without really adding anything to a line fight"? No. Does that mean I "tuck tail and run" when facing any sort of danger? No. Have I ever hidden as last man to avoid dying?

No.

You do notice the qualifier "generally". As in, more often than not. I never said "they always" sit in the back etc. "Those people" refers to the people who sit in the back to take pot-shots. Again, remember the qualifier "generally" that was used at the start of the point I was making. I don't do blanket statements. I always use a qualifier when I make a statement that includes many people. Just because it's the norm doesn't make it absolute.

Heydiddly, on 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

When you start baselessly stereotyping large groups of people, you become no better than the people you're ranting about. Grow up.

Seems like you're the one who is "stereotyping" what I'm saying. Reading comprehension is always a good thing before you get on your moral high horse and start attacking other people.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 26 July 2014 - 09:09 PM.

[Screech]

What if they hid stats behind a feather boa and occasionally teased you with a quickie.



That could be immersive.

[Zordicron]

I dont care about the stat really, BUT

My K/D ratio goes down when HSR code is suxx, like it is currently. So using it to gauge my performance is really moot, when factors out of my control can alter my performance in game. I do see some silly behavior in game from some people. I also think there is a sub-section of players that design builds completely based on the ratio rather then win loss which is really the name of the game anyway.

I dunno, different strokes for different folks, I think hiding it would just create a riot with the EPEEN warrior caste, and likely have minimal impact on game play anyway, so likely just not worth hiding it.

[Training Instructor]

I'd support the OP decision. One of the bigger reasons to use those big PP FLD loadouts is that you get the satisfaction of the kill shots much more often than if you're using a bunch of lasers, lrms, or srms.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

*read op, ponders... then looks back at thread title... hmm...*

Ramifications for in-game behavior? I'd say none.

But keeping more stats hidden? Why not?

[MischiefSC]

They should just have this drawn picture of an e-peen. The more total kills, the bigger it gets. Then next to it pictures of a football, then a car, then a football field, Godzilla, a tanker ship, the Empire State Building, etc.

So that you can see how amazingly huge your epeen is getting.You don't actually have to tie it to kills; just make it keep getting better the more someone plays.

That's all people really want. W/L is an actual measure of how good someone is at... helping drive wins and losses. Most people don't actually want that. They want to feel they are incredible and powerful and successful and have huge epeens.

They want lied to. KDR is an easy metric to game (hiding and powering down for example, running kill-stealing sniper builds that stay far from any fighting, etc) and so people like it for epeen measure more than W/L - since W/L can't really be gamed to make it better than it is.

So lie to them, give them their epeen meter and let W/L separate wheat from chaff like it always has.

[Delas Ting Usee]

I have a KDR score that's in the Negative.
I have a W/L score that' in the Positive however.

Got into an argument with a player with a high, positive, KDR.
Went into a private match.
Schooled him.
He doesn't comment much about my piloting skills anymore.

My Personal observations are that players do indeed pay attention to their KDR score.
To the detriment of the TEAM.
They hang back mostly, wait for guys like us to shred away the enemies armor and then take the kill.
Doesn't take a lot of skill to deal the death blow when others have worked hard and died to make that blow possible.
Hence, IMHO, a high KDR score doesn't equal a highly skilled player.
It might equate to maybe an above average pilot with no team skills whatsoever.

I say get rid of KDR.

[Lefty Lucy]

Piney, on 26 July 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

My impression is ELO would be such a moving, fluid target as to be useless for personal measure. Its not a fixed value.

Elo percentile would be extremely interesting to know though.

[Xeno Phalcon]

It would be a riot, a sad slow riot with angry fingers and very little actual movement from the rest of the body but a riot of sorts all the same.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The real problem isn't making K/D ratios visible to the public, it's giving players tangible rewards for it.
Whenever I need to make quick bills I just jump in a lurm boat and play like a scumbag. It's so amazingly effective I actually feel bad after several matches and stop caring about my K/D ratio again for another month.

Edited by lockwoodx, 27 July 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Delas Ting Usee, on 26 July 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

I have a KDR score that's in the Negative.
I have a W/L score that' in the Positive however.

Got into an argument with a player with a high, positive, KDR.
Went into a private match.
Schooled him.
He doesn't comment much about my piloting skills anymore.

My Personal observations are that players do indeed pay attention to their KDR score.
To the detriment of the TEAM.
They hang back mostly, wait for guys like us to shred away the enemies armor and then take the kill.
Doesn't take a lot of skill to deal the death blow when others have worked hard and died to make that blow possible.
Hence, IMHO, a high KDR score doesn't equal a highly skilled player.
It might equate to maybe an above average pilot with no team skills whatsoever.

I say get rid of KDR.

That fits it pretty much, i remember matchs where after some bad move i (or some friend ) ends with the CT in bright red and had to take cover in the rear part of the team with the sheer odd luck the person ends getting like 4-6 kills with barely 200 dmg points just by shooting at the right time (and oftenly just trying to net an assist more than anything else) while some other players carry the whole punishment of the match and dmg for 1 maybe 2 kills.


KDR whores are just those awesome players who brag how good they are but then blame their team for not perform the right *tactical movement* to achieve victory while they hang on the rear with ther precious assault awaiting for the meds or lights to lead the charge..

P.S: Special mention for those ppl who at least Push when they play assaults or follow the Assault push to death with meds or Heavies because at least they try to fight along the team.

[Heydiddly]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 26 July 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

The whole purpose of KDR is to see how well you did. Worrying about your KDR will alter how you engage the enemy. Is that an assumption? Yes, but it's a fair one to make. Can you flatly state that it won't? No, because you yourself say you try and maintain a certain KDR. Trying to maintain a KDR means, to some degree, it affects how you fight, where you fight, when you fight, and who you fight, all irregardless of what the team is currently doing. If you were to talk about Win/Loss then it would be about the team.

I think you misunderstand me slightly. I don't try to maintain a good k/d, my whole interest in it is grounded in the premise that if I'm playing effectively, I don't need to.

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 26 July 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

You do notice the qualifier "generally". As in, more often than not. I never said "they always" sit in the back etc. "Those people" refers to the people who sit in the back to take pot-shots. Again, remember the qualifier "generally" that was used at the start of the point I was making. I don't do blanket statements. I always use a qualifier when I make a statement that includes many people. Just because it's the norm doesn't make it absolute.

Fair point, I should've noticed that. I would argue that it's not the norm either, but that's not something either of us can prove one way or the other.

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 26 July 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Seems like you're the one who is "stereotyping" what I'm saying. Reading comprehension is always a good thing before you get on your moral high horse and start attacking other people.

Not quite sure where you got that from, I was only talking to you so hardly stereotyping. Granted, the little "grow up" snap at the end was a tad immature.

Edited by Heydiddly, 27 July 2014 - 08:27 AM.

[Sandslice]

Roland, on 26 July 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Just hit F9, and read the coordinates to OpFor so they can go kill them.

And get banned when the coward reports you for treason.

Scratx, on 26 July 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

The "why can't they just hide KDR" is a red herring.

KDR is just the number of kills divided by the number of deaths. You can compute it yourself with the windows calculator if you wish.

The only way to hide KDR is to hide the number of kills and number of deaths. At which point you may as well hide all stats entirely from the players.

Then hide deaths. I know of some games (eg, World of Warcraft's Pet Battle) that hide losses - it makes winning a matter of progression rather than a ratio to be stressed out over.

[Zolaz]

If your KDR or ELO is bad, why are you getting stressed out over it? If you are getting stressed out over MWO you have some bigger issues. I dont see a reason to not showing the stats. They show stats in baseball and no one is running around saying that the sky is falling.

[Adiuvo]

lockwoodx, on 27 July 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

The real problem isn't making K/D ratios visible to the public, it's giving players tangible rewards for it.
Whenever I need to make quick bills I just jump in a lurm boat and play like a scumbag. It's so amazingly effective I actually feel bad after several matches and stop caring about my K/D ratio again for another month.

That just means you're more effective in a LRM boat than you are in a typical mech. It doesn't really have anything to do with KDR.

Assists also pay more than kills do. 7500 for an assist, 5000 for a kill.

[Mercules]

DV McKenna, on 26 July 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

Why are people so obsessed with hiding stats.

Because like Quantum Physics "observation can alter the outcome".

I've taken the hunch off a hunchback before and moved on to more dangerous targets only to watch 4 teammates scramble to be the first one to kill the wounded almost worthless hunchback who was otherwise still armored across the rest of his frame. He has a Small laser and a Medium people, maybe shoot at the Atlas that is blowing off limbs with his AC/20?

Roland, on 26 July 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Just hit F9, and read the coordinates to OpFor so they can go kill them.

They can report you for that. PGI has stated you should not give out the coordinates of teammates powered down or not.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Heydiddly, on 27 July 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

I think you misunderstand me slightly. I don't try to maintain a good k/d, my whole interest in it is grounded in the premise that if I'm playing effectively, I don't need to.

Heydiddly, on 26 July 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

I make a point of holding each mech to a 1.0 ratio or better,

Sounds like maintaining a KDr to me, but I understand what you're trying to say.

I understand that the majority of the players care about their KDr to some degree. The people on the "I care more" end of the spectrum are the ones who hurt the team because they play in ways detrimental to the team, i.e. potshots from way behind the team, not supporting a team push, focusing on almost dead Mechs instead of using their relative safety to strip armor off healthy Mechs to make it faster for front-line Mechs to bring them down. etc.

People like you, the ones in the lower-middle to middle of the "I care" range are the ones who don't want to throw your own life away, decreasing your teams total firepower, without at least taking an enemy with you. I get that. It's a fair point to make for KDr being an informative tool.

The people on the low end of the "I care" range can hurt or help the team. They're either the Rambo idiots or the people who will throw their Mech first into the sh*tstorm because nobody likes to go in first.

I fall into the low/low-middle range. I'm a solo flanker/brawler. I'm usually engaging the enemy without much team support or spearheading an attack. That kind of play requires judicious use of my Mech. A lot of times I serve as a distraction to turn people around and draw fire off the main line of combat. If I don't kill people and/or do high damage then my death really served no purpose. That's especially true if I'm with a bunch of idiots who don't take advantage of my distraction/push and continue to camp.

On a side-note: I love it when LRM boats target the Mechs I'm targeting because it makes my job so much easier. An effective flank leads to a higher chance to success. If more LRM boats recognized the importance of supporting their flankers with indirect-fire... *sigh*

My KDr for my XL VTR brawler tells me I know what I'm doing. My Win/Loss ratio tell me it's effective more than it's ineffective given the randomness of who your teammates and opponents are. To me, KDr is only relevant in the context of how effectively I pushed/pressured the enemy. It's not a complete metric, but it's useful to gauge my individual effectiveness within a team-oriented action. In that regard I care about KDr.

Since I believe KDr is a mentality, removing it wouldn't be effective to curb that mentality. There are only two things a player will concern themselves about in this game: Kill/Death ratio and Win/Loss ratio. Adding objectives into the game will spread people's focus which will probably lead to better game experiences within matches and will undoubtedly benefit game as a whole.

Something as simple as objectives will benefit the game on so many levels. So many issues' resolution end in objectives/more content:

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 22 July 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

People continuing to give money to PGI, all the while complaining about lack of content, need to look in a mirror and understand that they are the problem. Not PGI. Why would a company change its modus operandi when you're giving them money for not delivering on content?

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 27 July 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Heydiddly]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 27 July 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Lots of things

I think we're pretty much on the same page now. I too am usually (mech dependant) happy to throw my mech headlong into the enemy and laugh as all my limbs fly off in various directions, IF I'm confident my team will capitalise on it. I don't necessarily go into games thinking 'I must get at least one kill', because often I'll grab 3 or 4. k/d is a very broad measure for me, taken over lots of games.

In my one LRM boat, a 5xALRM5 Stalker, I chainfire my missiles onto engaged enemy brawlers, effectively incapacitating them through screen shake and exploding face syndrome and giving my guy a huge advantage. Doesn't do a whole lot of damage if it's indirect, but it makes a great equaliser.

As far as having more objectives... amen to that. Last few months have been promising though, so I have hope.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Adiuvo, on 27 July 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

That just means you're more effective in a LRM boat than you are in a typical mech. It doesn't really have anything to do with KDR.

Negative. It means when I want easy kills/bills that require the least effort, lurms are where its at. If pilots were rewarded for participation as much as performance, with the focus on winning a match, then even the locust would seem more appealing.

Edited by lockwoodx, 27 July 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Hide kills/deaths.

Show Elo by chassis.

That would have a very good game effect.