296 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Lykaon, on 30 July 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

My ECM mech is a Raven 3L 2 medium lasers 1 TAG 2 NARC launchers AMS and ECM (yeah figure that build out for a prize)

First NARC is an AMS shield for the second NARC?

[Lykaon]

Wolfways, on 30 July 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

I think indirect-fire may be a little OP (seems so for many players) but direct-fire has been nerfed senseless due to PGI deciding that LRM's should travel at 160ms.
While i understand that every projectile weapon needs a projectile speed they all started at "instant". Slowest speed in the game on one of the longest range weapons doesn't mix well. The longer the range the faster the projectile needs to be before the target gets behind cover. That's why an AC2 travels at 2000ms and a PPC travels at 1500ms. They would be impossible to use on anything further away than a few hundred metres at the speed of LRM's.

LRMs have been effected by the poor implimentation of ECM more than most people can understand.

When ECM was released (and as an over powered nigh uncounterable mostrous pile of features) we had LRMs and TAG with a 500m range and a terrible NARC that no one used.That was the total of LRM related gear and effects.

There was no play tested and in use artemis no functional NARC a nearly half range TAG command consoles that were dead weight no UAVs etc.

Most of what interacts with LRMs was either not in game or under developed and untested by the players.There was never an opertunity to playtest a fully realized LRM support network before ECM was dropped on us.

Now we know that some of this stuff is suppose to work and do something (artemis) and it's suppose to be countered by ECM and that some stuff was suppose to be countered by ECM but now is instead a counter for ECM (NARC)

We know that LRMs are total garbage while at the same time totally over powered!


It's looking to me like we need to take ECM,TAG,NARC,BAP,Command Consoles,Artemis and LRMs back to the drawing board so all these things do something good enough for ECM to just do what it's suppose to do and not be a 360m across sensor inviso dome for everyone and do what it's suppose to.

[Lykaon]

Wolfways, on 30 July 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

First NARC is an AMS shield for the second NARC?

"we have a winner" or at least partially.

Yes two NARCs fired at once at a target with AMS allows at least one NARC to stick ALWAYS.

But 2 NARCs can also be used as a rapid fire NARC allowing two targets to be NARCed in the same time one NARC would be in cool down.As a forward observer you want to be exposed as little as possible and any time saver can be a life saver.

Or..you NARC the called target (or desired target) only to find an ECM mech near by,a quick flick and the ECM is NARCed as well without need to worry about cool down on the first and mission accomplished I can go hide again

Destroying an arm mounted NARC can happen quickly always pack a spare.

Many people criticize a mech with ECM and AMS but...enemy mechs do use NARC.

But why a NARC and a TAG?

TAG functions on mechs within ECM bubbles NARC only cancels ecm on the mech it's on.

TAG has no ammo and has a 750m range.

Only 2 medium lasers for offense?

Well only two medium lasers I contribute to the high volumes of LURMs donated by my team.

This is a dedicated support platform and only recomended for grouped play in the solo queue you are at the mercy of the match maker to give you the team that this meach is meant to support.

[Gavalin]

Yea I don't think LRM's are OP by any means...I just get so sick of them in solo Que. As a light mech you -have- to have Radar derp (Radar deprivation), probably an ECM. IF someone who knows they don't like light mechs (I'm guilty of this too) They will lock you the moment someone can lock you...and you spend the whole match running from the LRM's. Good players, lock you and wait for you to be away from the cover then launch on you.

But yes I hear "incoming missiles" in solo Que so much more than group play. In cordinated group drop LRM's are not that big of a deal, yes they can turn the battle but an entire cordinated group can avoid them no problem. Now certain maps...that on the other hand...is not...the same topic I suppose.

[Wolfways]

Gavalin, on 30 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yea I don't think LRM's are OP by any means...I just get so sick of them in solo Que. As a light mech you -have- to have Radar derp (Radar deprivation), probably an ECM. IF someone who knows they don't like light mechs (I'm guilty of this too) They will lock you the moment someone can lock you...and you spend the whole match running from the LRM's. Good players, lock you and wait for you to be away from the cover then launch on you.

But yes I hear "incoming missiles" in solo Que so much more than group play. In cordinated group drop LRM's are not that big of a deal, yes they can turn the battle but an entire cordinated group can avoid them no problem. Now certain maps...that on the other hand...is not...the same topic I suppose.

I hate lights (at least when they are enemy lights ) but they are my last choice of target if I'm using LRM's. I just find their speed (IS lights anyway) lets them get to cover/ECM bubble too fast unless I'm really close to them, which is exactly where i try not to be with LRM's.

[Y E O N N E]

Gavalin, on 30 July 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yea I don't think LRM's are OP by any means...I just get so sick of them in solo Que. As a light mech you -have- to have Radar derp (Radar deprivation), probably an ECM. IF someone who knows they don't like light mechs (I'm guilty of this too) They will lock you the moment someone can lock you...and you spend the whole match running from the LRM's. Good players, lock you and wait for you to be away from the cover then launch on you.

But yes I hear "incoming missiles" in solo Que so much more than group play. In cordinated group drop LRM's are not that big of a deal, yes they can turn the battle but an entire cordinated group can avoid them no problem. Now certain maps...that on the other hand...is not...the same topic I suppose.

LRMs in group queue aren't a big deal unless the other team is coordinating them. Holy butts, it's such a sight to see that I'm not even mad when I'm on the receiving end.

LRMs are actually in a good spot; the only change I might suggest for them is making them behave as the Streaks do in-game: randomly targeting different sections of the 'Mech rather than bundling on the CT.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

ECM is making game actually worst. And thats the freaking fact. So whole ECM design implementation is just plain wrong.

[Phashe]

Need more ECM! That is a 'fact'. ECM is fine. Also a 'fact'.

Now that we have all the 'facts' outta the way....

[Wolfways]

Phashe, on 01 August 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Need more ECM! That is a 'fact'. ECM is fine. Also a 'fact'.

Now that we have all the 'facts' outta the way....

If it's "needed" it's obviously OP.
Both your facts are not facts. That's a fact.

[Lykaon]

Phashe, on 01 August 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

Need more ECM! That is a 'fact'. ECM is fine. Also a 'fact'.

Now that we have all the 'facts' outta the way....

My point has always been we need ECM but I have no idea what this crap PGI called ECM is...

It's like Angel ECM Suite + Null Sig System + Stealth Armor + godlike AMS but it's not a Guardian ECM Suite,that items in level one rules does not do 90% of what MWo ECM does.

We need an ECM feature that doesn't muck around with stuff it isn't suppose to do like remove 75% of the sensor detection range from any friendly mech that stumbles within 180m.Prevent LRM locks,Prevent Streak locks,Counterable by TAG,NARC,BAP???seriously? it's countered by the things ECM is suppose to be the counter for? Great work there gang keep it comming and we can all enjoy BIZZARO mechwarrior.

[Mad Strike]

Greyboots, on 26 July 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh ECM I love you, Let me count the ways.

You stop working if you get NARCed, have someone with a BAP near you, have another ECM mech near you (who knows what the J button does), get Tagged, get spotted on seismics or shot by a PPC. Or aren't standing in cover (because it doesn't, despite popular belief, make you invisible and stuff like lasers, ACs, gauss rifles and PPCs remain hurty too).

So you mean that every mech is capable and comes with NARC , BAP and TAG or that everyone SHOULD carry those equipments just to survive right ? ....... Sadly they decided for teams to be capable to bring 3 ECM lights and 3 Atlas DDC to the battlefield completetly denning Streak Srms and LRMS.

Edited by strikebrch, 01 August 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[Lykaon]

strikebrch, on 01 August 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

So you mean that every mech is capable and comes with NARC , BAP and TAG or that everyone SHOULD carry those equipments just to survive right ? ....... Sadly they decided for teams to be capable to bring 3 ECM lights and 3 Atlas DDC to the battlefield completetly denning Streak Srms and LRMS.

I really wish people would grasp the simple fact that ECM is not just defense from missiles.

The LRM denial ability is seriously the least of the problems faced by a team opposed by 3+ ECM equipped mechs if those 3 ECM mech pilots also realize that ECM is not just some sort of super powered AMS.

And technically it could be 3 ECM lights Raven 3L,Spider 5D,Commando 2D,Kitfox and 3 ECM mediums Cicada3M AND 3 ECM Assaults Atlas AS7-DDC for a total of 9 out of 12 mechs per side having ECM.

And what happens if PGI chooses to include the Hellbringer/Loki that's a heavy mech with ECM? Or the Iceferret/Fenris a 45 ton medium with ECM that posses a more severe threat than a Cicada 3M.

We have some amazing potential for some seriously rediculous ECM coverage with every mech in a drop having an ECM.

Edited by Lykaon, 01 August 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Wolfways, on 30 July 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

First NARC is an AMS shield for the second NARC?

The other thing to do is bury the narc in with a bunch of SRMs.....increases the

[Gerhardt Jorgensson]

Lykaon, on 01 August 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I really wish people would grasp the simple fact that ECM is not just defense from missiles.

The LRM denial ability is seriously the least of the problems faced by a team opposed by 3+ ECM equipped mechs if those 3 ECM mech pilots also realize that ECM is not just some sort of super powered AMS.

And technically it could be 3 ECM lights Raven 3L,Spider 5D,Commando 2D,Kitfox and 3 ECM mediums Cicada3M AND 3 ECM Assaults Atlas AS7-DDC for a total of 9 out of 12 mechs per side having ECM.

And what happens if PGI chooses to include the Hellbringer/Loki that's a heavy mech with ECM? Or the Iceferret/Fenris a 45 ton medium with ECM that posses a more severe threat than a Cicada 3M.

We have some amazing potential for some seriously rediculous ECM coverage with every mech in a drop having an ECM.

One of the largest problems with ECM that I have noticed as someone who solo drops most of the time is the fact that many players will not or do not know how to read your spot reports, and even if they did, it takes a huge amount of concentration from the fight to stop everything to type up something to your team that they will most likely ignore, anyways.

The red triangle is the most easiest way to quickly send information to your team mates, as we do not have voice comms with strangers or a quick chat rose yet. Until those features are implemented, ECM can be pretty devastating against an unorganized solo team.

[Lykaon]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

The other thing to do is bury the narc in with a bunch of SRMs.....increases the

But then they really know you're there! Sticking a NARC and running is easyer to get away with.

Gerhardt Jorgensson, on 01 August 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

One of the largest problems with ECM that I have noticed as someone who solo drops most of the time is the fact that many players will not or do not know how to read your spot reports, and even if they did, it takes a huge amount of concentration from the fight to stop everything to type up something to your team that they will most likely ignore, anyways.

The red triangle is the most easiest way to quickly send information to your team mates, as we do not have voice comms with strangers or a quick chat rose yet. Until those features are implemented, ECM can be pretty devastating against an unorganized solo team.

Precisely my point.In the solo queue a single well deployed ECM can conceal a significant portion of the enemy movements.Seeing how standard puggie operating procedure is move until contact with the enemy occurs then dig into cover a well deployed ECM can be a serious problem as it allows unnoticed movement against a static defense strategy.

Same situation played against a group would not be nearly as effective because 1: Static defense is not THE go to strategy and 2: Voice comms allows 12 sets of eyes to efficently report enemy sightings.

And I feel ya I have actually stopped piloting active recon mechs in the solo queue because either my team does nothing with the intel I give or fails to understand "H5,3 tango>west" means Grid H5 has three enemy mechs in it moving west.

Edited by Lykaon, 01 August 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[KharnZor]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Here is crysis 3 at a generous draw distance. You can easily make out the soldiers in white armor next to the supply pyramid.



MWO suffering critical screenshake.



Fighting in heatvision to give robots some kind of defined borders.



Pubbie desynching while trying to shoot a robot with the HUD turned off. Yes, there is a robot there. It's a dark blob. Circle it for me.



It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

And yet myself and many others have no real trouble using eyes to spot targets.

[IraqiWalker]

KharnZor, on 01 August 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

And yet myself and many others have no real trouble using eyes to spot targets.

Amen. I use a tiny screen myself.