296 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Mcgral18, on 29 July 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

Perhaps it could also cause PGI to rethink hard-counters.

PGI doesn't re-think anything, I'm not sure they think at all.

[Wolfways]

IraqiWalker, on 30 July 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

In my opinion, and perception, I see LRMs as mainly an indirect fire weapon. Yes, they have the ability to be fired directly, but I think that defeats the purpose of mounting LRMs, or at least the draw back of mounting them: Relegating your mech to the rear lines.

This is where we have to agree to disagree.
To me LRM's are a direct-fire weapon that can be fired indirect, and i don't think I've ever read anything that contradicts that. I'd prefer to use them at range until moving in for the kill with other weapons. Otherwise my favourite BT mech, the Mad Dog will be pointless for me

[MoonfireSpam]

You guys really think buffing LRMs to the point where you stay in cover or die would make for a fun game?

edit: Sorry but the picture you lot paint is so unfun in my head.

Edited by MoonfireSpam, 30 July 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Yokaiko, on 30 July 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

PGI doesn't re-think anything, I'm not sure they think at all.

They have to think to come with this stuff. Thinking, and GOOD thinking, are two different things.

Wolfways, on 30 July 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

This is where we have to agree to disagree.
To me LRM's are a direct-fire weapon that can be fired indirect, and i don't think I've ever read anything that contradicts that. I'd prefer to use them at range until moving in for the kill with other weapons. Otherwise my favourite BT mech, the Mad Dog will be pointless for me

I see you point, and I agree to disagree.

[Prezimonto]

Heeden, on 28 July 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

I can see this going places ^.^

"ECM can be a nuisance but LRMs are a pain"
"LRMs are a joke l2p, but ECM is the devil"
"ECM ain't that bad l2p, LRMs are fun-killers"
...and so on.

Personally I think we should have a passive heat-signature detector (or something) that works regardless of ECM and it should be shared on the radar with the other team-mates, just to make the radar more effective for PuGs or other people without voice-coms.

I think the lock system should be disconnected from the auto-detect. If you want a lock on a target you can see, you hold the crosshair over them until the targeting computer can identify the shape, then the triangle appears (even if they're in an ECM) field. This information is not shared unless you're in a Command console field with a C3 slave unit. (in my dreams, it should probably just be shared).

Once your targeting computer has identified a target, it starts obtaining a lock automatically. The whole process should take around 6 to 8 seconds in an ECM field, which makes firing LRM's meaningfully still nearly pointless. But it does mean a whole team can't advance with impunity under ECM, if someone sees them, they CAN get that information out to the team other than through chat.

Last thought:
ECM provides cover from LRM's. Can we get Artillery smoke walls, to provide advancing cover from direct fire weapons?

The game already has the technology, it would need a little artwork and that's about it.

[Haxburch]

No this guys believe lock red dots and fire at this while stay behind a big rock is fun. Its the same mentality like wot arty players have and also this guys natural sux with directfire wapons.

NERF LRM ! MAKE LRM ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON !

[BourbonFaucet]

For the moment, what would be wrong with setting up the MM so both teams have at least 1 ECM but no more than 3?

[Wolfways]

MoonfireSpam, on 30 July 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

You guys really think buffing LRMs to the point where you stay in cover or die would make for a fun game?

edit: Sorry but the picture you lot paint is so unfun in my head.

I already use cover and matches are (sometimes) fun. I don't stay in it....

[IraqiWalker]

Haxburch, on 30 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

No this guys believe lock red dots and fire at this while stay behind a big rock is fun. Its the same mentality like wot arty players have and also this guys natural sux with directfire wapons.

NERF LRM ! MAKE LRM ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON !

You really need to manage your anger issues. This much rage is not good for your cardial health.

Also, Understand the arguments around you, and use cover. Every player that knows what they're doing is telling you LRMs aren't OP.

[Haxburch]

IraqiWalker, on 30 July 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

You really need to manage your anger issues. This much rage is not good for your cardial health.

Also, Understand the arguments around you, and use cover. Every player that knows what they're doing is telling you LRMs aren't OP.

[Redacted] i can say my opinion like you and my is NERF LRM and make it ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON.you can do nothing against this and i dont care what LRM lovers say.

Edited by John Wolf, 31 July 2014 - 05:27 PM.
Unconstructive - Insults

[Wolfways]

Haxburch, on 30 July 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

No this guys believe lock red dots and fire at this while stay behind a big rock is fun. Its the same mentality like wot arty players have and also this guys natural sux with directfire wapons.

NERF LRM ! MAKE LRM ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON !

Yeah, because all players should like the same few weapons...
Oh, and all player who use LRM's do it because they suck with any other weapon anyway....
Or their connection sucks...

You might as well just come out with it. You don't like the LRM playstyle (me either, too nerfed) and would rather be able to just kill anyone you like because.

Sometimes when reading these forums i feel my IQ drop.

[verybad]

I wouldn't say it breaks the game so much as is a very strong piece of equipment.

It gives an advantage, but the problem is that there isn't other similarly strong advantageous information equipment..

BAP should be increased in power, ECM should have different modes of use that either strongly defend the carrying mech but don't give advantages to surrounding mechs, or weakly defend the carrying mech and surrounding mechs.

BAP should strongly affect a targeted mech, or weakly affect multiple mechs in an area. (depending on mode of use again)

There is currently no rock, paper scissors system, it's a shishbag of wtf.

[IraqiWalker]

Haxburch, on 30 July 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

And you dude should stfu , i can say my opinion like you and my is NERF LRM and make it ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON.you can do nothing against this and i dont care what LRM lovers say.

Again, manage your rage, there are civil ways of saying an opinion, wrong as it may be.

[mogs01gt]

MoonfireSpam, on 30 July 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

You guys really think buffing LRMs to the point where you stay in cover or die would make for a fun game?

How is not staying in cover and getting alpha'd any different? Cover is cover and has zero to do with the discussion...

[MoonfireSpam]

Wolfways, on 30 July 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Yeah, because all players should like the same few weapons...
Oh, and all player who use LRM's do it because they suck with any other weapon anyway....
Or their connection sucks...

You might as well just come out with it. You don't like the LRM playstyle (me either, too nerfed) and would rather be able to just kill anyone you like because.

Sometimes when reading these forums i feel my IQ drop.

I just disagree that LRMs are "too nerfed". But I don't think they are OP.

However concessions that could be made for ECM:
Prevent target sharing (i.e. blocks indirect damage)
Remove stealth bubble, but replace with umbrella increasing lock on time
Hides dorito for equipped mech (same as now)
Baby steps for making changes

Why LRMs are in a nice spot:
Good damage (although spread) when used in the right circumstances (i.e. mechs engaged, can't really run for cover)
Good area denial
Good deterrant for light mechs (no aim)
Natural tendency for focus fire (indirect fire/NARC)
Cockpit shake (!$*(^&^&"* for pilot of recieving fire)

Edit: To the dude above
Getting alphaed by standard crap needs line of sight and aim
Getting LRMed needs neither aim or direct LoS.
And a lot of the things that block direct LoS do not block LRMs

Edited by MoonfireSpam, 30 July 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[mogs01gt]

MoonfireSpam, on 30 July 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Edit: To the dude above
Getting alphaed by standard crap needs line of sight and aim
Getting LRMed needs neither aim or direct LoS.
And a lot of the things that block direct LoS do not block LRMs

Do you actually play this game or go off what the other failed posts contain?

and they are dependent on the other team not having ECM, not having a high number of AMS, not having radar depr, not being more of 1000m away, maintaining the lock, getting the lock, maps with cover and LOS doesnt always mean you can get a lock.

pin point damage weapons only require LOS and proper aiming........Ohh and your teammates not walking in front of you...

Edited by mogs01gt, 30 July 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

KharnZor, on 30 July 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

Because looking is hard.

Here is crysis 3 at a generous draw distance. You can easily make out the soldiers in white armor next to the supply pyramid.



MWO suffering critical screenshake.



Fighting in heatvision to give robots some kind of defined borders.



Pubbie desynching while trying to shoot a robot with the HUD turned off. Yes, there is a robot there. It's a dark blob. Circle it for me.



It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

[Mcgral18]

Haxburch, on 30 July 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

And you dude should stfu , i can say my opinion like you and my is NERF LRM and make it ONGLY DIRECT FIRE WAPON.you can do nothing against this and i dont care what LRM lovers say.

Sure, make them direct fire only. Give them a 500 M/s travel speed, along with 900 for SRMs.


Now, what will NARC and TAG do? Break through the magic jesus box?

[Wolfways]

MoonfireSpam, on 30 July 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

I just disagree that LRMs are "too nerfed". But I don't think they are OP.

I think indirect-fire may be a little OP (seems so for many players) but direct-fire has been nerfed senseless due to PGI deciding that LRM's should travel at 160ms.
While i understand that every projectile weapon needs a projectile speed they all started at "instant". Slowest speed in the game on one of the longest range weapons doesn't mix well. The longer the range the faster the projectile needs to be before the target gets behind cover. That's why an AC2 travels at 2000ms and a PPC travels at 1500ms. They would be impossible to use on anything further away than a few hundred metres at the speed of LRM's.

[Lykaon]

Carcass23, on 29 July 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

Crying on the forums because my missle boat was broked by EMC!

Seriously though, I don't get it. I have a mech with ECM, it gets countered all the time. I mean.. all the time. Good job enemy scouts! I can take or leave LRMs, sometimes when I actually do put LRMs into a build I have 0 problems finding targets. This topic is so old and stale. The answer was LTP then, and it remains the answer now. Teamwork is required to be effective in countering ECM but with enough planning, you too can add a TAG/BAP/NARC/ECM and counter the enemies. When my team is wandering every which way, unfocused and losing badly. It's strange how much more powerful enemy ECM becomes when my team is failing to coordinate together. Teamwork counters ECM efficiently, it's really not that difficult.

I also noticed a LOT of posters, standing up for the PUG army and insinuating that since the group of them as a whole are window lickers, ECM needs to be nerfed to allow special needs players a fighting chance. I am calling bullshart. Counter ignorance with education. That's what the forums are for. The PUG matches aren't full of drooling Neanderthals (no offense to any Neanderthals that might be reading this), they're just players. A lot of them are pretty good players too. This game doesn't have this mountainous learning curve that has been described, its NOT THAT HARD TO PLAY THIS GAME!

I couldn't help but notice that a great deal of your post was about ECm and LRMs

ECM is not AMS!

ECM does so much more than just shut down LRMS and if you have not learned how to exploit the absurd power of a 1.5 ton 2 crit passivley functioning sensor cloak with a 360m across bubble of awesome super powers you do not understand ECM.

You are still playing little league E-war.


Your ECM mech is countered all the time? Mine is countered almost never in close support and rarely when used for targeting support and ECM suppression duty.

My ECM mech is a Raven 3L 2 medium lasers 1 TAG 2 NARC launchers AMS and ECM (yeah figure that build out for a prize)


As for counters to shut my Raven down.

TAG: you need to see me,you need to hit me,you need to be more than 180m away from me,to keep me TAG'ed you need to follow me (into a trap).

BAP: You need to see me,You need to be within 150m of me,you need to stay within 150m and follow me (into a trap)

NARC: You need to see me,you need to get within NARC range of me,you need to hit me,I need to be stupid to leave cover until the NARC is down if/when you hit me,

ECM: you switch to counter mode (losing your ECM coverage),you need to see me to get within 180m of me so you need to follow me (into a trap).Or...ECM switched to counter mode so no ECM cover for your team I sling some NARCs out and then run you into a trap.

Most of the time when someone ties to shut down my ECM mech I turn it into an opertunity to kill them.Unless they are the careful sort and then they ussually break off persuit and my ECM is free to roam.

The problem is counter ECM requires active persuit of an ECM mech.This grants an intelligent opponent the opertunity to bait a trap or at the very least pick where they fight you and with what for back up ( Like running around a bend to a SRM boat buddy who blows my persuit to flinders in a single alpha.)

AS for PUGs (solo queue) and ECM.The issue is not entirely laying at the feet of idiocy.Even I would not make a claim that everyone in DERPtown was Derpy some solos are actually quite good and sometimes they are not even group players soloing.

The issue is the difference in how a response can be mustered between the groups and the solos.

Scenario is this. Crimson straight the enemy has concentrated 8 mechs to an attack over the D5 rise moving towards Epsilon.the 4 remaining mechs under ECM are flanking.One of the defending players is caught out in the open by the 4 flanking mechs and is evaporated instantly without getting a passive sensor ping on any of the four mechs performing the flank.

In a group the dead player says 4 enemy mechs (maybe mech types) rear flanking watch your six.
And everyone in the group hears this and can now respond within a second or two.

In the solo queue best case scenario is the dead player bothers to type look out behind you or something and maybe someone will see the chat tab and maybe they will respond peicemeal and line up for the mech grinder.

But most of the time the dead guy just disconnects for the next trip to DERPtown.There is no 'team" in Puggie.

The result is ECM has a disproportionate effect on Pugs than on Groups.and the causes are solos do not have the means for expediant communication or the means to be sure they were heard at all.

I can say incoming grid Hotel six five tangos with ECM. and I have very quickly disemminated information that in grid H6 there are 5 enemy mechs under ECM cover. My DC (drop commander) says "copy" and I know he knows.

In DERPtown I can stop and type " H6 5 inc w/ecm " I need brevity to survive I can not type concise intel the end results are...

one DERP is wondering if I'm using some sort of "1337" speak.

Another derp or three don't ever read the chat box.

A lone wolf who knows what it means and reads the chat box is to busy trying to fight while his DERP team members find cozzy holes to hide in.

Another lone wolf knows what I mean but one guy with a brain is not enough to mount an adiquate response.

And lastly some DERP stops ineffectivley flailing and friendly firing long enough to type "what does wecm mean?"

Edited by Lykaon, 30 July 2014 - 02:09 PM.