1258 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Big Tin Man, on 29 July 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

My $0.02: it's simple.

PPC and Gauss can fire all at once. Speeds remain the same. Keep 2 gauss limit (sorry b33f)

They recycle one at a time due to heavy power draw filling capacitors (whatever helps you sleep at night). Up recharge time for both to 6 seconds.

Want to alpha your Superdirewhale? (3ppc 2gauss) 30 seconds of recharge before you can alpha again.




Hope you 1-shotted that light running around your ankles because it is going to eat you. If you just winged it, you're dead.

I can actually get behind this kind of thinking! I like to Throw Heavy Alphas at my enemy, but making me have to decide, do I have "THE shot" is making it a thinking person's shooter. If you are wrong, the penalty is... I have to wait a long time to pull the Alpha trigger again!

[Destructicus]

Theres an episode of South Park where they make fun of Inception's plot and Stan's mom says this

"Just because an idea is overly convoluted and complex doesn't make it cool."

Thats how I feel when Paul come up with these wild ideas.

Edited by Destructicus, 29 July 2014 - 07:43 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Not a problem here, id say bring on the public test, just remember to offer rewards so people turn up to the public test this time

[Rokkaku]

To be honest, most of the negative feedback here just seems to be saying, "Please don't take away my OP pinpoint alpha strike." I would enjoy giving it a run on the PTS before judging anything.

[Night Fury76]

If you just want to bane the ppc/gauss combo, just ban the combo in the mech lab and be done with it.
Site the energy draw on the reactor etc.

Just stop with the system over system of band-**** to stop the combo.
Players are just going to work around your system, not because its a good combo, but to just plain "P@ss you off".
Why? because players are bored and have nothing better to do than to break your systems.

The new players who can't manage the ppc/gauss thing already are still not going to look at it, so spend your limited and valuable development time making content to give not only the bored players but everyone more to do.

And finish the weapon modules already, or are you continuing the trend of free to play games, introduce a system 1/2 done and then develop it no further, moving on the the next shinny because you have the attention span of my children.

cheers

[pbiggz]

Imperius, on 29 July 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Just take away all the weapons and we can all just play hug warrior online...

#sarcastaball

really, slow down projectile speed moderately and decrease ******* weapons convergence, stop using convoluted overly elaborate mechanics to try to fix what is already wildly over complicated and held together by numerous poorly thought out bandaid fixes.

At this point the bad decisions HAVE to cost more than the good ones

[IraqiWalker]

Rokkaku, on 29 July 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

To be honest, most of the negative feedback here just seems to be saying, "Please don't take away my OP pinpoint alpha strike." I would enjoy giving it a run on the PTS before judging anything.

I don't use that build, not my style, and it won't effect any of my mechs to be honest. Least of all the DWF. However, the idea is downright stupid, over-complicated, and doesn't really help. This is literally a nerf to ONE build, on ONE mech.

A mech that literally has nothing going for it other than it's supposed to have lots of firepower. 50 PP FLD for 30+ heat is too much for people? What about the almost zero heat 40 PP FLD on the boom jager? That mech moves at more than 50% more speed than the DWF, plops 120 damage into an enemy per 10 seconds, and generates almost no heat for it.

Sure, there are those that are whining because their newest wheel of cheese is getting nerfed, but no one should really give a **** about those guys. This system will cause too much wasted dev time, over complicated mechanics that the players have to deal with (causing them to spend more time fighting the game than enjoying it), and do nothing to the over all game at all.

[Alexandrix]

For the love of god,don't slow down the PPC any more than it already is.It's essentially man made lightning for criss sakes.It should not be crawling along like an AC round.

Put the link firing thing in instead if you want.Doesn't matter to me either way as I don't hump the lame PPC/Gauss meta.

Do that,and increase the recharge time on PPCs to say 6? seconds,and the gauss to 7 seconds? maybe.....there.done.

Now front loaded sniper weapons aren't just as good (or better) in a short range brawl than real short range brawling weapons!!! and ppc/gauss boaters have to consider sacrificing weight/crits/hardpoints to actually bring some back up weapons.

Edited by Alexandrix, 29 July 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Mycrus]

The parade of tryhards crying makes like this upcoming change... all hail pgi... all hail paul... promote Pauling!

[Mystere]

(ER)PPC by themselves are already terrible. Slowing them down just makes them even more terrible.

I knew the heat buffs given to the Awesome were just too good to be true.

Edited by Mystere, 29 July 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[eaglemaster42]

I don't use ppc or gauss anymore and can't really say I'm getting killed by either that much either, any further nerfs are overkill imho

[Livewyr]

Of the two options presented.. I would go with Option 2. (Option 1 is just making undue complications.)

You have a third option, and I know you guys are aware of it because Russ Mentioned it:
Extend the Cool-down of the PPC to 6 seconds. (I would say 7.)

If you look at the Meta builds, they all have one thing in common: the PPC.
2xPPC/Gauss
2xPPC/AC10
2xPPC/2xGauss
2xPPC/2xAC5
2xPPC/UAC5/AC5
PPC/2xAC5
PPC/Gauss

It is no shock why. Unlimited ammo, decent range, light weight for damage, small, Pinpoint, Front-loaded Damage.

I know you are not too squeamish to implement a long reload, the CSSRM6 has nearly the same cooldown as the Arty Strike.

Reducing the RoF of the PPC will not eliminate the Meta's pinpoint alpha damage, but it will make it far less palatable in a close in situation against shorter ranged weapons having greater Rates of Fire.

[Hayato1983]

I think the ppc gauss drain mechanic would work best.

[Mystere]

I blame the extremely whiny forum warriors for this impending mess. It's as if they will not stop complaining until they can no longer die from weapons fire.

[Tarl Cabot]

Interesting approach. Though I do use a PPC/Gauss Rifle here and there rarely do I fire both at the same time.

What is missing the effect heat has a mech in movement and control. Right now you have ghost heat and damage to CT. The question is, does PGI and the cryengine have the ability to cause the mech to slow down at heat intervals, as well as mech weapon movement sluggish or shake cross hairs like jumpers?

[wanderer]

I'm amused. Highly.

This has one right thing (oh noes, a high damage FLD pinpoint combo-blast kills the damage model!) and a whole lot of wrong.

Twin PPC + gauss gets broke? People will swap to the nearest possible option. The problem, as it has been, is being able to instantly converge damage into big ol' blocks of damage. The Dire Wolf simply got it up to the point where you have a 50-point light 'Mech gibshot. Everyone else just does it to a lesser extent.

There really should be only one gun that delivers that single-point instant punch, it's the Gauss, and it's got the flaws of huge tonnage, incredibly boom-fragile crits, and the multi-shot lockout that prevents more than a 30 point ULTRA COMBO STRIKE to the groin of the offending target. Turn PPC's into "streams", make AC's short-burst guns (with Clans having longer bursts, just like they balanced lasers) and this will be done.

[EgoSlayer]

Typical. Bad Idea and worse idea.

First idea - overly complicated, unintuitive, but at least its a targeted nerf.
Second idea - Knee jerk overcompensation that reduces the weapon to it's closed beta level or usability. AKA - near useless at long range due to slow speed, not useful enough in brawls due to range limits (PPC) or too high heat (ER-PPCs).

Brilliant!

How about:
Gauss gets (rapid) burst fire shots - either two or three projectiles per burst.
PPC/ER-PPC gets .5 second burn time like lasers.

There, either or both are better than the proposed solutions, cuz the existing two choices are beyond lame.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 29 July 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

Now that you've apparently fixed the number of objects overloading the server (machine guns + ray trace):

Cone of fire PER WEAPON; no pinpoint convergence of all weapons unless you're stationary.

A salvo of four PPCs should hit four different points (less if they're all in the same location of your own mech) at over half the weapon range.

Edited by Fiona Marshe, 29 July 2014 - 06:57 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Mystere, on 29 July 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

I blame the extremely whiny forum warriors for this impending mess. It's as if they will not stop complaining until they can no longer die from weapons fire.

You're on to something here.

Fiona Marshe, on 29 July 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

Now that you've apparently fixed the number of objects overloading the server (machine guns + ray trace):

Cone of fire PER WEAPON; no pinpoint convergence of all weapons unless you're stationary.

A salvo of four PPCs should hit four different points (less if they're all in the same location of your own mech) at over half the weapon range.

A more reasonable and logical fix would be incremental convergence, instead of cone of fire. Which didn't make sense at all. In the lore, and TT you can aim your shots, and in fact, most warriors that know which pedal moves the mech, and which button fires the weapons knew how to aim.

In TT it was spread because that shooting happened over the course of the movement, and the span of 10 seconds of combat, during which both pilots would try to shield, and possibly fire while being shot at (throwing their aim off)

Incremental convergence would make roles like sniping a bit harder to do. It would also make mechs a bit inaccurate while moving at high speeds (above 80% would cause high rate of inaccuracy)

Basically, try playing a game in 3PV and notice the cross hair bob up and down. Something like that implemented in 1PV would go a loooong way towards simple PP FLD.

The other problem though is that it would definitely make IS ACs even more powerful, since you just need to time one shot for max damage.

[LastPaladin]

"The new firing mechanic that Russ was mentioning is indeed in the game right now but it is set to off."

You may want to check that all of the code is really "inert", because I noticed something strange on my 3 PPC Awesome tonight.

If I fire 3 PPCs at the same time, it works no problem. If I fire 1 PPC at a time, no problem.

But, if I fire 2 PPCs, I cannot immediately fire the 3rd PPC. It seems like for about a half second, the 3rd PPC is prevented from firing. At first I thought something might be wrong with my mouse, but it only happens on the Awesome, and after reading about this firing mechanic, it sounds awfully similar in nature.