1258 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

People really hate getting sniped in this game...

For what it is worth I'm 100% happy with the state of ppc/gauss in its current implementation. The 50pt DireWolf build MIGHT be a little too powerful but that is about it.

[Y E O N N E]

I vote for "none of the above." I have a better idea:

How about PPCs have to charge up before firing? You know, like they are supposed to? As in, you press the trigger and now it's going and there's no aborting it. It charges and fires with one click. No holding the button.

This whole "can't fire multiples" business is going about things the wrong way. All it's going to do is shift focus from PPCs and Gauss to PPCs and one or two AC/5...which is already also a problem combo.Your proposed change will hurt Clan 'Mechs more than Inner Sphere 'Mechs, anyway. As much as I despise Clans and their equipment, I think that would be a pretty poor showing to unfairly gimp one side (which reminds me, give IS medium lasers their original heat value).

Really, this is all dancing around the issue, and the issue is that it's way too easy to get an instant 30+ points of damage into one spot on the target from far away. There have been many good ideas on how to fix that tossed around the forums, and I'm sure the myriad authors of said ideas would love to pitch them to you (PGI) in an organized fashion.

But these proposals in the OP? They are not good.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 29 July 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Vermaxx]

High one-hit combos directly counter LRM users, since they either don't present at all, or present for a moment. With the current buffs to LRM and indirect firing, you either need a quickshot build to hit a LRM mech when it presents, or you NEED the radar-kill module to even hope to protect yourself.

You guys nerfed high alpha builds when they were the only way to play, and now they would help fight clan mechs with superior everything (particularly range). You nerfed PPC heat and took away their scaling below 90, now both negatively impact their use WHEN THEY WOULD HELP FIGHT CLAN PLAYERS. You added a charge to gauss...because I don't know why. The critsplosion and drastically reduced internal HP were enough. The charge just shat upon an already severely "balanced" (nerfed) weapon.

Now your next big plan is to eliminate the players who trigun. I hate getting hit by a poptart or snipe camper, but dagnabbit they're out there doing a job - fighting the overpoweringly long ranged clanners and over abundant LRM slingers.

Let's start looking at rolling back some of these nerfs-upon-nerfs before adding more. We don't need the extra heat and major ghost penalties on PPCs, they're already too large, heavy, and hot to effectively boat...and even 3-4 groupings their damage isn't that impressive. Let's get rid of the gauss charge entirely and let it be a sniper rifle again, instead of some kind of prediction palm reader tarot gun.

AFTER ROLLING THINGS BACK, we can try this system where pairing PPC and gauss has all kinds of fun flavor effects. Adding all these layers of "balance" only continues to punish people who AIM, and encourage people who do not.

Edited by Vermaxx, 29 July 2014 - 08:40 PM.

[Joe Ong]

Wanted to propose the EXACT same mechanism as poster above Yeonne Greene!
Give PPC's a mechanic which requires a charge before firing ( only they cant be cancelled once charging begins)
When you fire 2 at once, they both charge up same time but shots are released seperately? example Boom, 0.2sec, Boom?
Maybe a 1 sec charge up?

[SinisterSocks]

I feel you "PGI" are just listening to the cry babies that get 1 or 2 shotted. JJ changes now gauss/ppc changes. I feel all you want MWO to be is brawling up close and personal. If thats the case why not just have SRMS and small lasers and AC 20s. If you keep nerfing the "snipers" pin point damage guys, they will just change. They may keep playing the game or they may move to something else if they dont like it..But if they (Good Players) they will find a way to make that work and then it too will be the talk of the town on how unfair and unbalanced it is. It seems like you guys are trying so hard to balance the game which from my little experience is always a fighting battle. There will always be something that dominates and those that die by it will always complain.

All I am saying is I think this is really drastic.

[Koniks]

Vermaxx, on 29 July 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

High one-hit combos directly counter LRM users...

Fast, short-range DPS builds; AMS; ECM; cover; and Radar Deprivation counter LRM users.

[Devilsfury]

CoffiNail, on 29 July 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

I think the slower PPC might ruin the man-made lightning aspect of the PPC if you slow it down too much.

I like the Gauss PPC energy drain mechanic.

1 PPC can be fired during the charge, 1 second later the second PPC can fire. 2 Gauss fired, no PPC fired until the Gauss is charged, fired and 1 second has passed.

THIS! Yep... sorry for the trolls that want to keep their 2 Gauss, 2 ERPPC Dire Whales. Your time at 1-2 shot lights and mediums is about to come to an end. Oh yeah, time for the TW/Madcats to feel the pain too. HAPPY DAYS! YOU CAN DO IT!!

[Vanguard319]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 29 July 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Random chance doesn't belong in a skill based video game.

spoken like a true elitist. There is no skill when you have accuracy with all your guns to a pixel while jumping, there is no skill in killing a single player in massed fire. Why don't you stop using skill as an excuse because we all know you're full of ****. Even FPSs nowadays have reticule bloom, which represents the reduced accuracy of making a precise shot while running. There should be accuracy penalties for running, jumping, and letting your heat go through the roof. That would do more to fix the pinpoint issues than what Paul has planned.

Edited by Vanguard319, 29 July 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[Cabal LV426]

PPC Projectile speed is VERY-VERY bad idia. It is sniping weapon with long range, clan ER PPC especially. If it lose speed it will be useless.
But energy drain for gauss is a good idea. But do it that the PPC and Gauss can't fire at the same time at all.
In theory firing PPC deal power fluctuations which may interrupt or owerload gauss cannon which can expode or been broken. So mech automatic disable PPC when charging Gauss or disable Gauss at the PPC firing.

[Homeless Bill]

R5D4, on 29 July 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Wish I could up-vote this x1000. Many of us have talked about this type of solution a number of times on the forums but it never gets looked at and/or addressed by the Devs why this couldn't be done. If nothing else I would like to hear from the Dev team why this isn't a viable solution from a game development perspective (leave cost to implement out of the equation here).

From an actual development standpoint, there is no reason. It's just a copy-and-paste-and-rename of the current heat meter (at least my proposal) in terms of code and even assets if you wanted to be lazy about it. Just different numbers.

As far as I can tell, the prevailing approach is that adding any additional complexity at this point is bad. They don't want to rock the boat, and they don't want another thing for the player to have to worry about.

And I get that. They're trying to surgically carve out problem builds, rather than tackling alphas as a whole. But in doing so, they're merely chasing the cheese around. It's definitely gotten better than it was (with the exception of my Cheese Wolf, which has, by far, the highest solo PUG KDR and WLR of any 'mech I've ever owned (who could have seen that coming?)), but it's still unbalanced.

Everything from LRMs to PPCs to lasers is better in large quantities, and I think it's time for them to stop denying that and do something to slow the pace of the game. We're at a point where it's becoming ridiculous. How many more weird-ass mechanics are we going to see before "balance" is achieved?

Heat, accuracy, or weapons not firing - it doesn't matter what they do; they just need to pick one, put all the weapons on a single scale, and stop chasing the cheese from build to build.

[Slater01]

RUSS - FLICK THE SWITCH!!!!

This game is so close to being really well balanced. I really hope for a change\nerf to the Gauss PPC combo.

Edited by Slater01, 29 July 2014 - 09:06 PM.

[Yukichi Fukuzawa]

I am ok with the linked fire penalty. Something needs to be done with PPC and Guass. However, I think that hurting the PPC velocity will nerf them back to the days when no one used them. Please do not do this.

[Joseph Mallan]

No convergence to Gauss/PPC Alphas. Is that to much to ask?


Seriously, I am not sure if its to much?

[Modo44]

Ignore the fact that Gauss+ERPPC (just one) is now often used on the TW. **** with IS mechs that could still be somewhat competitive against the TW. Great job as always.

[Aresye]

This is an absolutely terrible idea, and there's no reason explaining why because there's already 11+ pages doing exactly that.

It utterly baffles me how incompetent the development team is when it comes to game balance.

[IraqiWalker]

Vermaxx, on 29 July 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

You added a charge to gauss...because I don't know why. The critsplosion and drastically reduced internal HP were enough. The charge just shat upon an already severely "balanced" (nerfed) weapon.

That was actually the smartest weapon modification they ever made. Gauss was just too strong. It wasn't balanced, it was broken. When a sniping weapon works better at brawling than all brawling weapons, something is wrong.

Vanguard319, on 29 July 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

spoken like a true elitist. There is no skill when you have accuracy to a pixel, there is no skill in killing a single player in massed fire. Why don't you stop using skill as a crutch because we all know you're talking BS. Even FPSs nowadays have reticule bloom.

No, that's pretty much skill. It's the same thing with real life aiming. Have you never used a gun? They really do fire the bullet exactly where you aim. As long as you know how to aim.

[Heklin]

Homeless Bill, on 29 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Bottom line: the weapon lock mechanic is awkward, and there's no way to make it not awkward. And the alternative of changing PPC speed will just make it synergize with higher-calibre autocannons better, so people will switch to that. Sure, it negates the range, but the problem is still ultimately 30+ pinpoint damage to a single location.

I'm begging you to consider something like this. A hurricane of bandaids has done half of what a serious effort to tackle front-loaded damage could do, and you'd have the added benefit of having another way to balance over/under-performing variants.

You could argue that it's complicated, but how is it any more so than the combination of this arbitrary mechanic, Ghost Heat, the Gauss charge, and all the other jumpjet and PPC adjustments it's taken to get even this close? Please go comprehensive and get this over with.

I think this is an interesting idea. It doesn't mess with the stats, has a logic to it,, and works on other combinations like 2x PPC and AC10s,, I personally don't think it would take too long to get used to.

If we are going to go with the one of the suggested changes,, i would go with the adjustment to speed. But start small and adjust further as needed.

[Vanguard319]

IraqiWalker, on 29 July 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

That was actually the smartest weapon modification they ever made. Gauss was just too strong. It wasn't balanced, it was broken. When a sniping weapon works better at brawling than all brawling weapons, something is wrong.
No, that's pretty much skill. It's the same thing with real life aiming. Have you never used a gun? They really do fire the bullet exactly where you aim. As long as you know how to aim.

I was on my Varsity rifle team, and I can tell you now, there is more to making an accurate and precise shot than point and shoot. There is no skill in point and shoot, especially when the only factor is the quality of your mouse.

[IraqiWalker]

Vanguard319, on 29 July 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

I was on my Varsity rifle team, and I can tell you now, there is more to making an accurate and precise shot than point and shoot. There is no skill in point and shoot, especially when the only factor is the quality of your mouse.

I agree. However, Most people can't track targets that well in this game, and require considerable skill to aim properly for the most part. I use a crappy gaming mouse, but I can still do a decent job of it because I've trained my reflexes through years of video gaming. Also, lowering mouse sensitivity can help with aiming.

[Vanguard319]

IraqiWalker, on 29 July 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

I agree. However, Most people can't track targets that well in this game, and require considerable skill to aim properly for the most part. I use a crappy gaming mouse, but I can still do a decent job of it because I've trained my reflexes through years of video gaming. Also, lowering mouse sensitivity can help with aiming.

if that is the case, why are you so terrified of having something like a reticule bloom system? It would level the playing field, and make the game about real skill, and not about who has the sickest gaming peripherals. As for myself, due to my situation irl, I don't even have a mouse. Every kill I have scored since closed beta has been with a laptop keyboard and touchpad.