1258 replies to this topic

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

MANY MORE OPTIONS AVAILABLE'ERE.

Spoiler

[Nicholas Carlyle]

NeuroToxic, on 30 July 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

As it should be if you want to reward skill.

So you think firing an alpha via a single click is harder than chain firing multiple weapons?

You think PPFLD that immediately converges into a single pixel via NO work of the person firing the weapons is tough?

You think it's easier to hold hitscan or burst fire weapons on target, while making no defensive maneuvers?

And all this on some anonymous account because you are scared to make posts on your real account?

Nice job.

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors!

Quote

[color=#00FFFF]Hey folks,[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]I'm going to pre-empt the concern that nothing has happened with the PPC/Gauss combination in the game and Russ mentioning work being done on it for this patch.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]The new firing mechanic that Russ was mentioning is indeed in the game right now but it is set to off. The reason for this is that it's a very complex active system which is going to directly affect your weapon triggering. Yes we have complex systems in the game like Heat Scale but Heat Scale is passive. There's a big difference in a player's experience when the active triggering mechanism is changed, much like the Gauss Charge. The Gauss Charge however is a single stage active change, the Gauss/PPC system that is on hold right now is a 3 stage active change.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]The Mechanic:[/color]

• A Gauss Rifle is a charging weapon.
  
• A PPC is a heavy energy draw weapon.
  
• In the case of a 2+ PPC - 1 Gauss equipped 'Mech, the following will happen:
  • While the Gauss Rifle charges, the pilot can only fire 1 of the PPCs. Choice is the pilots.
    
  • While the Gauss Rifle charges, the pilot cannot fire both PPCs simultaneously.
    
  • If the pilot decides to fire 1 PPC, there is a 0.5 second period in which the 2nd PPC cannot be fired.
• In the case of a 2+ PPC - 2 Gauss equipped 'Mech, the following will happen:
  • If the pilot charges 2 Gauss Rifles, no PPCs will be able to fire.
    
  • This PPC lockdown effect lasts for 1 second after the Gauss Rifles have fired or auto-discharged.

[color=#00FFFF]We are in constant talks about this and MIGHT bring it on-line on the Public Test Server for you to provide feedback and thoughts on the mechanic.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]One of the other solutions I've been looking at is slowing down the PPC projectile. What this gains is the ability of a target 'Mech to spread incoming damage more effectively by twisting its torso out of the line of fire. The number I've been toying with is 750m/s for PPCs and 850m/s ERPPCs(IS and Clan). Now if you're wondering what the current speed is, it is 1500m/s. So yes... that is a 50% decrease in projectile speed for PPCs.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]What this translated into is that at 1000m, the PPC projectile hits its target just under 1 second after a simultaneously fired Gauss round. At 500m, it is around 1/4 of a second. Optimal target distance for the PPC/Gauss combo falls into the 600-700m range which allows enemy 'Mechs to close the gap a little easier vs PPC equipped 'Mechs. This also means that the PPC/AC20/AC10 combinations will be affected as well. A 50% decrease in projectile speed seems overly excessive but it really does bring the feel of the PPC/Gauss combo back into alignment with the rest of the game.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]I'd like to, at this time, ask that you give your thoughts on these two solutions in the[/color] feedback thread for this post[color=#00FFFF]. Please keep in mind that the numbers listed in this post are testing values only and not the final, to be put into game numbers.[/color]

[color=#00FFFF]I understand that that both of these mechanics seem fairly heavy handed but it's time to bring this weapon combo into alignment with the other combinations of weapons.[/color]

Please let us know which of Paul's ideas to balance PPC+Gauss you would prefer to see in-game!

[NoClass]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Well 30 points of PPFLD is obviously a problem, since we've been nerfing/changing PPC's/Gauss/AC's in circles for well over a year now.

So that's why your overall premise is flawed.

As long as the hitbox system is in place as it currently is, it's a port of TT. End of story.

What premise is that? I gave an opinion, not an argument. Would you like an argument?

Edited by VigilanceHawkwind, 30 July 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[Demoulius]

PPC's were insanely slow in the earlier editions of the game, that essentialy a medium moving at a modest pace was hard to hit at times unless you were standing still yourself.

Tbh nerfing 1 weapon system isent the solution if the combination of weapons is causing the trouble. As much as I hate to say it, I think PGI nailed that part with their solution. Beeing able to fire a max of 2 weapons, while limiting is needed for game balance I feel. Just to many mechs can run around with those combos and theyre making the game really hard for anyone who wants to fight in a different manner....

[Grimferth]

So, has the time spent on this compliant-driven need to "balance" had any impact on the delivery schedule for CW, maps, and other important content? Frankly, I'm tired of the constant cycle of buff/nerf.

[The Great Unwashed]

But it sucks for pretty normal 2PPC/1GR combinations...

[Hobgoblin I]

Like most people I don't like either choice, but as you are asking for the lesser of two evils, I'd go with the firing mechanic change...changing speeds wouldn't stop the effectiveness of the combo at medium or shorter ranges.

[NoClass]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

So you think firing an alpha via a single click is harder than chain firing multiple weapons?

You think PPFLD that immediately converges into a single pixel via NO work of the person firing the weapons is tough?

You think it's easier to hold hitscan or burst fire weapons on target, while making no defensive maneuvers?

And all this on some anonymous account because you are scared to make posts on your real account?

Nice job.

The difficulty of using PP can be increased by tweaking movement speeds, terrain navigation and mech profiles/proportions. These buffs and tweaks are just examples of ways to raise the skill creatively unlike your solution.

Please based Vigilance f*** my b****

Edited by VigilanceHawkwind, 30 July 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

First Idea: Too complicated, if you guys have (repeatedly) taught us one thing, its that the more complicated something is the easier it breaks.

Second Idea: Pretty silly to go from firing lightening to firing silly string but its the lesser of the two evils offered so I would go with this one. (If you slow it down that much, REDUCE THE FREAKING HEAT ON ERPPCS)

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 30 July 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[Macksheen]

Popping in again because it's been about a day.

And this is still lame.

If you want to limit their firing together, please put something in place like grouping them for ghost heat or preventing/slowing charging / recycle and not slowing projectile speed or making me have to play taps on my mouse buttons to make the charge happen.

I'm totally fine with grouping them for ghost heat.

I'm totally fine with changing their charge mechanic (and, in fact, if you made the PPC a bit faster so that you had to fire it slightly before the gauss ... but prevented the gauss from charging while a PPC was recharging, etc. you'd also be ok)

Edited by Macksheen, 30 July 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Actually, the best thing that could happen to this game is enforced chain firing. Would fix every single problem that currently exists. for the most part.

You can only poptart one weapon, it's a forced fix for convergence, since you can't fire more than one weapon. It stops massed LRMs. It stops the Dire Whale.

Then why even have mechs that can have more than 3-4 weapons?

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

It's honestly perfect.

Says an LRM boat.

[Sug]

Just increase ppc minimum range to like 300m.

[Bhelogan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 30 July 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

Doesn't address the main issue, which isn't PPC + Gauss, it's PPC and ANY OTHER PPFLD WEAPONS aside from the AC/2.

Well, no not really. The problem is Gauss and PPCs. The reason Gauss is so deadly with PPCs is that the heat is so low for the damage and rate of fire you get with it with the Gauss.

The problem with saying you can still use Gauss and say AC20 is that you are only using one type of weapon slot (ballistics). Sure the Clan mechs can monkey around to get more of those, but only the Gauss is pinpoint. There are no IS mechs were you could mount 5 ballistic hard points to mount what you get with the dual guass, 3xppc Direwolf. I have no problem with the other AC and Gauss or PPC combo. If your using say AC5,s 10s or 20s with PPC, your generating a lot of heat that limits what you can do.

[OznerpaG]

i don't use either the PPC nor Gauss, but slowing down the PPC is pretty lame considering it involves particles - slowing it down turns into a proton torpedo or something. partial pinpoint nerf on PPC could work better - have the damage spread more the smaller the mech is

PPC vs:

assault mechs - all dmg pinpoint

heavy mechs - 75% pinpoint dmg, 25% splash

Medium mechs - 60% pinpoint, 40% splash to 2 other components (20% each)

Light mechs - 50% pinpoint, 50% splash to 2 other components


just a rough idea, but pinpoint is a bigger problem for lighter mechs, not heavier mechs so this would give lighter mechs a better chance at surviving a pinpoint alpha

Edited by JagdFlanker, 30 July 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[Why Run]

This is asinine. You told us you didn't limit hardpoint sizes because you wanted creative builds. So all of a sudden, weapons that traditionally couldn't fit on certain mechs, could be added in duplicate or triplicate. And now, rather than fixing it through hardpoint restrictions, you nerf yet another weapon. What is it that you want this game to be? It's become ridiculous to the point of not being worth playing anymore, after many hundreds invested and way too many hours. Enough is enough. Either restrict hardpoint and limit weapons that way, or live with the fact that certain mechs are going to have high damage alphas FLD, and others are going to have high weapon counts with PP but DoT damage. Oh, and get rid of stupid ghost heat and give us a real game!

Edited by Why Run, 30 July 2014 - 06:58 AM.

[BladeXXL]

Making despondency between PPCs and Gauss is a very BAD idea! What's next: NO SRMs while firing 4 ML+? :-)
You will make the game more complex for beginners as already is!

What about those already discussed variants of:
a ) slow down PPC a little (~1100m/s PPC / ~1200m/s ERPPC) AND introduce fire-delay of 0.2-0.5 seconds
b ) swap the values of engine-internal and additional DHS. This will cause:
- max. 14 engine internal DHS value (from 20)
- player will need to equip 3 more DHS to compensate that
- player with 2 PPC + 1 Gauss will need to chose between being to hot or tonnage weapons down for more DHS ... this way you will get more builds like 2 PPC + 1 (U)AC5 or 1 PPC + 1 LL/2 ML + 1 Gauss

This way you also could reduce PPC heat penalty AND you can avoid to BREAK valid builds!

But again: it's your choice if you wanna brain**** the playerbase

Edited by BladeXXL, 30 July 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Start with lowering the ppc rounds(like 950) but not as drastically as 500, it should provide some way to torso twist at low medium range. I like new mechanics like the gauss one and the gauss mechanic dont affect other weapons.

Edited by DAYLEET, 30 July 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[Drogra]

Sug, on 30 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Just increase ppc minimum range to like 300m.

//sarcasm
Only if we also add minimum ranges to other weapons long range weapons, triple the 0 damage range of LRMS, add 0 damage range to clan LRMs, and remove the ability of lasers to deal damage beyond long range.
//endsarcasm

This idea is even dumber then either suggested idea and doesn't even address the problem that the "solutions" were presented to solve.

[Sug]

Now that "the old ways are dead" can you finally add hardpoint size restrictions and solve a bunch of problems with this game simultaneously?