1258 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Adiuvo, on 29 July 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

This is a Mechwarrior game. Where you can aim. This is not Battletech tabletop, where you roll dice. If you want that experience, go play Megamek.

This is a MechWarrior game that uses the armour system from BattleTech tabletop, a system that isn't designed for pin-point accurate damage; it is designed for spread damage.

Where TT uses dice rolls to spread the damage we need something not-so-random, like movement-based reticule shake (a.k.a. head bob in other FPS games), or movement-based Cone of Fire, or non-instant convergence, or any of the multitude of ideas that have been presented over the last two years or so.

There's no shortage of ideas on how to fix the problem of instant convergence (I listed four in a previous post), which is the REAL problem these convoluted and twisted ideas in the OP are trying to address.

[LegoPirate]

Skadi, on 29 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=171&l=1a0cefd0c36ba2d3833f8c699873b6c1dc2cb008
K im ready for the nerf paul.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...36e7c3061ffd9da

me too

[Skadi]

LegoPirate, on 29 July 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...36e7c3061ffd9da

me too

Just use the 1gauss 1ppc 3ml build, isnt affected by pauls silly mechanic.
ggclose

Edited by Skadi, 29 July 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Jman5]

Why don't you just tie the PPC heat scale to Autocannons?

Fire 1 PPC: fine
Fire 2 PPC: fine
Fire 3 PPC: heat scale
Fire 2 PPC + 1 Gauss: Heat scale
Fire 2 PPC + ac/5: heat scale
Fire 1 PPC + 1 gauss: fine

You already have this system in place that players understand, so you might as well use it.

If I have to choose one option you listed, I would pick the lower projectile speed, but I'd rather use the ghost heat mechanic.

Edited by Jman5, 29 July 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[IronChance]

The first option is overly complicated and non-intuitive. Please don't do it. I also don't think reducing PPC projectile velocity is the right way to go, since it would make the weapon only worthwhile against very slow/immobile targets. There aren't enough of those to make it a weapon I'd consider taking in to battle with me.

If you want to fix high-alpha, high speed, long range, pinpoint damage loadouts, then make PPCs a splash damage or damage over time weapon.

[Macksheen]

One more thing - one reason Guass is only super popular now because clan ACs generally blow.

[Heydiddly]

I'd like to voice my support for the energy-limit suggestion made a couple of times on the first page. Undoubtedly some people will moan because it's not canon (AFAIK, please correct me if I'm wrong), but it seems like an elegant solution that also adds depth in it's own right.

[Gyrok]

Geck0, on 29 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

While I am hopeful, this is more of the same. Just band aid after band aid. A constant effort to "fix" pop tarting while trying to keep something that shouldn't be viable to begin with.

The issue has NEVER BEEN with the weapons. It has been the ability to land damage on a single spot consistently. The gausspult, the fastback, the jager-bomb, the pepsi stalker, etc, etc. The weapons have never been the root of the issue. The issues the weapons had were the most readily visible and masked the real issue that PGI has yet to address and likely never will.

As usual too complex for its own good. Apply the accuracy debuff that occurs while using jump jets while in mid air even when you're not using jump jets. Can still shoot while mid flight but brings it to a risky tactic at best and brings back the core game play.

You must not be reading this right...the issue has ZERO to do with jump sniping. That is not really even an issue at this stage...

(Well, it may tangentially have a tie-in, though that is pretty weak at best...)

[Monkey Lover]

Paul better come up with some game play before you kill sniping. There is almost never left to do in this game. There is nothing wrong with the system we have now. ppc+gauss should hurt. Its a sniping weapon. If you get hit by a snipe you should say "dang what happen" .

Not lets push across this open land who cares if i get hit a little.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 July 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Gyrok]

Jman5, on 29 July 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Why don't you just tie the PPC heat scale to Autocannons?

Fire 1 PPC: fine
Fire 2 PPC: fine
Fire 3 PPC: heat scale
Fire 2 PPC + 1 Gauss: Heat scale
Fire 2 PPC + ac/5: heat scale
Fire 1 PPC + 1 gauss: fine

You already have this system in place that players understand, so you might as well use it.

NO!!! Just desync the projectiles...problem solved, no more convoluted garbage.

[Mechteric]

Lowering the weapon speeds seems like a cop out. Also the limiter of how many PPCs per Gauss is interesting as concept, but you really need a way to convey this in the in-game HUD (not just the UI as a warning). Mechwarriors need real-time indicators of when things are happening.

[oldradagast]

mooky, on 29 July 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

Don't mind the desynch stuff at all, though it will complicate life, but whatever.

Do mind the huge slowdown to ER/PPC's ... it will disproportionately affect PPC heavy mechs, like the Awesome should be. Small slowdown, like Heffay indicated, 1200 m/s .. sure, halfing it, heck NO!

Agreed. PPC's are NOT the problem. Pinpoint damage is. They can keep debuffing weapons all day, and in the end whatever pinpoint weapons remain will be played.

Finally, heavy energy mechs are already weak in this game - don't make them weaker by trashing the PPC's. It's not as if ballistics are already the dominant weapon... yeesh...

[Pezzer]

PPCs going back down to 750m/s? Oh, okay. You wanna make them Closed Beta PPCs again, which were useless weapons. Nice job.

You know, we could lose all of these convoluted restrictions by eliminating pinpoint. You guys do realize this, right?

I like the idea of making the maximum possible pinpoint dmg from projectile weapons only 35 damage but there's no need to slow PPCs down that much. Setting them down to 1000m/s? Maybe. 750m/s? Hah, with PPCs producing 10 heat they will merely be heat factories. And this is coming from someone that hates the PPC meta.

Edited by Pezzer, 29 July 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[ImperialKnight]

what's the point of this feedback thread anyway. History has shown that Paul is just going to do whatever he wants, no matter how bad his idea is and regardless what good ideas are suggested here.

[DarthPeanut]

Mark me down for dislike the idea entirely... I would rather just fight with the direwhale setups in battle like I do now. That setup has it's weakness.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 29 July 2014 - 04:45 PM.

[Jman5]

Gyrok, on 29 July 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

NO!!! Just desync the projectiles...problem solved, no more convoluted garbage.

The devil you know.

Either way, both ghost heat and a slower ppc projectile speed would desync ppc from Gauss. However, slowing down the ppc projectile would interfere with other builds that aren't really a problem. That's why I'm in favor of ghost heat as an alternative option.

[Death Mallet]

Don't nerf PPCs.

If the problem is with PPC/Gauss combos. . . use a solution that affects that issue. Don't apply a general nerf to all PPCs.

[Sylvara-Arc]

While I'm not overly fond of either option the second seems far too heavy handed a nerf to those who solely use PPC's without resorting to Gauss alongside it.

If I had to chose between the two I'd have to go for the first of the two options, the limiter is an interesting concept, if complicated. However as long as there was a clear way of showing the limitations so that you know what is happening when it happens and preferably in the mechlab in addition, it could work. Without clear information being given about it in-game it could lead to considerable frustration.

[ArkahnX]

The first option is completely over the top, don't go adding more confusing, not explained systems, to the game.

Speed change is doable.

[Gyrok]

I would be fine with something like ~950m/s - ~1050m/s for ERPPC, and standard PPCs about 100m/s behind whatever the ER ends up doing.