1263 replies to this topic

[BillyM]

Individual weapon nerfs hurt folks who run individual weapons FAR more than those who run multiple of the same.

A 50% speed decrease on PPC means the death of single-ppc mixed-build users. ...double and triple users will still run it though.

De-sync from Gauss is important, but without de-syncing multiple PPC's from themselves without nerfing the weapon used individually, you are just continuing to hurt the non-optimal loadouts more than the metabuilds.

Case in point, single Gauss mixed- builds were used extensively before the nerf, so were dual-gauss builds. ...nerfed with the charge mechanic and all the sudden you see the mixed-builds drop Gauss like a stinky terd, but guess what, dual-gauss is still around and rocking-on!

...lets not repeat historical failures

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 31 July 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Drogra]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 30 July 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

How about this... People crying over PPFLD... Fine... What ever... I don't even see why it's such a problem. No mech gets 1 shotted by gauss 2x ppc anymore unless its a head shot or a rear shot... But that's because people skimp on armor to those locations.

Unless you happen to run in a Light or Medium full-time. 35 damage to the side torso of my blackjack is more armor then I run on my closer range build, and almost all of the front armor on my center torso (44 max for side torso on BJ).
Have I been instagibbed from a front shot? Yes, but it has only happened once. I have been insta-gibbed from rear shots more times then I would like to mention, but thats a risk with smaller mechs.
Do I think the game needs to be broken to fix a single mechs build? No.

I would rather see the maps rebalanced for 12v12, as most of them are exactly the same as they were when they were 4v4. I'm sick of dying instantly on River City because the bases spawned across the river in direct sight of each other and a clan mech with dual gauss happened to look across the river and see me and take me apart before I can even get out of sight.

[Volkodav]

nehebkau, on 30 July 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I don't have a problem with gauss or PPC. I do have a problem with 2 gauss and 2 ppc all instantly converging on my torso from 1 Km

This is just one mech. Why should nerf everything. And that Daishi with 2 gaus and 2 ppc suck - this is the wrong assault. You will see. Dire Wolf can there are many more interesting and powerful configuration and would be more useful.

[Daehoth]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 31 July 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Colonel Pada Vinson stats since stat reset.
MechWarrior Credits 15,495 Kills / Death 5 / 2 C-Bills 36,731,291 Experience Points 8,343 Wins / Losses 3 / 2 Kill / Death Ratio 2.50 Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 118,321.80 Avg. XP Per Match 1,668.60

All those unspent MC. all those banked cbills not being spent. 5 matches played. No reason to play a crappy game made by crappy people who **** on everything around them because, like untrained apes, they simply don't know any better.

That's my honest feedback to your business - your game sucks monkey balls, so much so that I am not interested in logging in and spending the remaining 15,495 MC I still have banked because there is 0 worth spending it on in this entire game, and I amongst many other 20 year mechwarrior fans with more passion in our left pinky for this game than you entire staff has continue to avoid this piece of vaporware that you and your staff and rodent infected monkeys continue to use to troll people who in any way attempt to course correct the burning and sinking ship PGI and gang are steering into the titanics graveyard.

But of course, we are just an agry overzealous crowd that always hated this game because we didn't bend over for PGI & co everytime you sold us another lie, and after 3 years of believing your bullshit we finally left when we couldn't take the lies anymore.

PGI is a trolling & abusive company towards it's playerbase. Niko is the perfect CS man for the front of the business, and for myself as a customer who spent $300 on this game to support PGI while they ****** their loyal customers as hard as they could, I can only warn others at this time that your money is very likely spent significantly better on other products that are much better.

Make my day Niko. Troll me. or crawl back into your little shithole after you delete this post and smile in that split second of power you feel before your PGI ships sinking no longer even elucidates this split second of my time you've managed to garner as I watch you treat another customer like ****.

Colonel, may I ask when did and under what context did Nico reply to please?

[Volkodav]

Do not need to nerf longranged weapons back, again, again and again - better buff close-in fighting weapons for equilibration (balance). Of course and maps should be a little revised.

Another way to balance - with the aid of instruments СW, without frequent changes of balance of weapons.

Edited by Volkodav, 31 July 2014 - 06:20 AM.

[Livewyr]

Volkodav, on 31 July 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

Do not need to nerf longranged weapons back, again, again and again - better buff close-in fighting weapons for equilibration (balance). Of course and maps should be a little revised.

Another way to balance - with the aid of instruments СW, without frequent changes of balance of weapons.

TTK is fast enough thank you.

Reduce the RoF on the long range weapons...

[Sagedabluemage]

im just gonna say this once and i know it crossed people's mind how about an increased cooldown instead like 6sec coold down for ppcs and gauss would be about 5 seconds since it has that random charge mechanic it wouldnt mess with anything other than syncing the weapons also it would mean less shots and techniclly you could screw up the timing with it. instead of a weapon combo lock have it that weapons such as ballistics missles and energy all had different cooldowns that really make you choose on which ones to fire for what range.

[NoClass]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 31 July 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Colonel Pada Vinson stats since stat reset.
MechWarrior Credits 15,495 Kills / Death 5 / 2 C-Bills 36,731,291 Experience Points 8,343 Wins / Losses 3 / 2 Kill / Death Ratio 2.50 Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 118,321.80 Avg. XP Per Match 1,668.60

All those unspent MC. all those banked cbills not being spent. 5 matches played. No reason to play a crappy game made by crappy people who **** on everything around them because, like untrained apes, they simply don't know any better.

That's my honest feedback to your business - your game sucks monkey balls, so much so that I am not interested in logging in and spending the remaining 15,495 MC I still have banked because there is 0 worth spending it on in this entire game, and I amongst many other 20 year mechwarrior fans with more passion in our left pinky for this game than you entire staff has continue to avoid this piece of vaporware that you and your staff and rodent infected monkeys continue to use to troll people who in any way attempt to course correct the burning and sinking ship PGI and gang are steering into the titanics graveyard.

But of course, we are just an agry overzealous crowd that always hated this game because we didn't bend over for PGI & co everytime you sold us another lie, and after 3 years of believing your bullshit we finally left when we couldn't take the lies anymore.

PGI is a trolling & abusive company towards it's playerbase. Niko is the perfect CS man for the front of the business, and for myself as a customer who spent $300 on this game to support PGI while they ****** their loyal customers as hard as they could, I can only warn others at this time that your money is very likely spent significantly better on other products that are much better.

Make my day Niko. Troll me. or crawl back into your little shithole after you delete this post and smile in that split second of power you feel before your PGI ships sinking no longer even elucidates this split second of my time you've managed to garner as I watch you treat another customer like ****.

[DarthPeanut]

Last night in the NGNG Podcast it was talked about a bit.

The suggestion was to make it a mech specific quirk to limit the numbers of ppc/ gauss firing at same time and not affect all mechs globally, which seems like a great idea. It targets only where this is a problem WITHOUT penalizing everyone else for it.

I hope PGI listens to them since it seems they are going to implement this in some form or another. I personally do NOT want to see a ppc slow down or gauss changes, as I have said already in this thread.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 31 July 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Livewyr, on 30 July 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

That sounds a little better than straight cone of fire, but I can see a big issue:
If moving causes accuracy loss, and sitting still maintains perfect or near perfect accuracy, would that not promote camping? (Being entrenched means you can shoot them accurately while they move to you.)

It does not support aggressive action.

My posts have been about this. If reticule bloom (read: increasing CoF) only happens at high throttle (say after 75-80% speed), AND high heat, etc this doesn't happen. Players need to think more about what speeds they move at, though.

As you well know, static camping, not moving at all, is a death sentence. Yes, you're less accurate at long range while moving fast, but you could use your keybind to set a key for 80 or 70% throttle to easily move to more stable speed before firing.

What this does is force a choice: more long range accuracy, at the cost of vulnerability. It also opens doors for heavy weapons and such to be balanced via increased CoF when they fire, decaying quickly after, for example, an AC20 round disrupting other aim when its fired, and accuracy returning over a second or so after (recoil, baby).

Moving at moderate speed, not pushing massive heat, not jumping, etc? Perfect, 100% accuracy. Put some thinking back into the game.

It's not at all complicated, and is a system used in just about every other shooter ever.

[Bishop Steiner]

High Energy draw, fine.

Slow the PPC projectile down even more?

Well, that is a great way to make it utterly useless.

Wintersdark, on 31 July 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

My posts have been about this. If reticule bloom (read: increasing CoF) only happens at high throttle (say after 75-80% speed), AND high heat, etc this doesn't happen. Players need to think more about what speeds they move at, though.

As you well know, static camping, not moving at all, is a death sentence. Yes, you're less accurate at long range while moving fast, but you could use your keybind to set a key for 80 or 70% throttle to easily move to more stable speed before firing.

What this does is force a choice: more long range accuracy, at the cost of vulnerability. It also opens doors for heavy weapons and such to be balanced via increased CoF when they fire, decaying quickly after, for example, an AC20 round disrupting other aim when its fired, and accuracy returning over a second or so after (recoil, baby).

Moving at moderate speed, not pushing massive heat, not jumping, etc? Perfect, 100% accuracy. Put some thinking back into the game.

It's not at all complicated, and is a system used in just about every other shooter ever.

been pushing this very thing since CB.

High speed, Jumping and high heat. Rest of the time, just like it is now.

[Volkodav]

If my accuracy does not depend only on me. I do not want to play this game.

[Wintersdark]

Volkodav, on 31 July 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

If my accuracy does not depend only on me. I do not want to play this game.

Right now, your accuracy is completely random while using jump jets, but you still play the game?

Reticule bloom allows your accuracy to depend on you. YOU choose if you want perfect accuracy, or if you want to push your mech harder at the cost of accuracy. It's entirely in your hands, and you have complete control over whether or not you're firing with pinpoint accuracy.

[Cimarb]

Wintersdark, on 31 July 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Right now, your accuracy is completely random while using jump jets, but you still play the game?

Reticule bloom allows your accuracy to depend on you. YOU choose if you want perfect accuracy, or if you want to push your mech harder at the cost of accuracy. It's entirely in your hands, and you have complete control over whether or not you're firing with pinpoint accuracy.

Well, to be accurate, your accuracy is still perfect, but the shake makes it hard to see what you are pointing at, which makes it hard to hit anything. Jump jet shake, nor impulse, actually move your aim.

[Jacob Side]

"It's deadly because my gauss rounds impact and the target JUST STANDS THERE until the erppcs impact. And usually still just stands there while I recharge everything and fire off another set of gauss and erppc rounds. It's not like the majority of the players TRY to avoid getting hit, they don't twist, they don't move around, they just stand there and point their guns in my direction and fire."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

[Wintersdark]

Cimarb, on 31 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Well, to be accurate, your accuracy is still perfect, but the shake makes it hard to see what you are pointing at, which makes it hard to hit anything. Jump jet shake, nor impulse, actually move your aim.

Jump jet shake absolutely does move your aim. It's NOT just visual shake like weapon impulse. Get a laser, jump, fire laser: Observe laser firing off in random direction. It doesn't wave about randomly, but while jumping (that is, spacebar down jumping, not falling) every half a second or so they'll pick a new random direction for the next fired weapon. I can demonstrate if you like, but it's very easy to see in game.

I'm very much aware of how screen shake works. Jump jets are NOT just a screen shake effect.

See:

Edited by Wintersdark, 31 July 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Fire and Salt]

The PPC is fine as is.

Even a single PPC is hot. Lasers already do a lot more damage per heat generated.


2ppc is not overpowered. It can't even leg a locust in a single shot.



If the problem is with one of the weapons in the ppc gauss combo, its not the PPC its the gauss.

The dual gauss combo does 30 pinpoint damage, and it is no harder to use than dual ppcs, which only do 20. Yes, there is a charge mechanic, but this makes 0 difference if you are jump sniping. You time the gauss so that it is ready at the came time your reticle stabilizes. Its different for every mech due to JJ differences. But after a few games you get used to it. After that, the higher projectile speed basically makes up for the slight difficulty charging.


I bet you are just looking at the numbers and are seeing more ppc use than gauss use...

But this does not mean the ppc is the problem child. PPCs get tons of use because they fit on any chassis.

Most of these builds are fine. A 2ppc jump sniper is good, but OP? No way. Rarely do I see complaints about a 2 ppc blackjack.





As you said - the problem is with the combo. Does my single ppc kit fox really need a Nerf? That thing runs hot even with 14 dhs, so I rely on my 2 medium lasers in prolonged combat.

PPCs are so hot that people take heat sinks OFF of dual ppc builds so that they can add backup lasers.

Basically, I feel that PPCs are already balanced by heat.



I think a dual gauss mech is more abusive than a dual ppc mech. However - 2 of each is just absurd.

Personally, I think the charge time for a single gauss is fine, but charging 2 at the same time should take 1.5-2x as long as charging 1.

As for the gauss/ ppc combo - I think that 1 gauss and 1 ppc is fine, so I agree with you there.

2 gauss and 1 ppc or 2 ppc and 1 gauss is excessive. The lockout mechanic seems a little forced, but it would be OK, because it would only target a few abusive builds.


Also - we will start seeing 4 gauss dire wolves unless you make dual gauss charge slower than single gauss. I'm OK with a quag gauss mech if the volleys ate spaced 1.5+ seconds apart, but .75s is just not long enough.

[Flapdrol]

The 50 pinpoint alpha of the direwolf is kind of silly.

This is another convoluted way of lowering pinpoint alpha, but I'm fine with it.

Edited by Flapdrol, 31 July 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Cimarb]

Wintersdark, on 31 July 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Jump jet shake absolutely does move your aim. It's NOT just visual shake like weapon impulse. Get a laser, jump, fire laser: Observe laser firing off in random direction. It doesn't wave about randomly, but while jumping (that is, spacebar down jumping, not falling) every half a second or so they'll pick a new random direction for the next fired weapon. I can demonstrate if you like, but it's very easy to see in game.

I'm very much aware of how screen shake works. Jump jets are NOT just a screen shake effect.

See:

My mistake. I thought they worked just like impulse, but in my defense I have not used a jump jet mech to direct fire anything in many months... All of my jumpers are LRM boats currently (Treb and TWolf)...

[WarHippy]

If these changes go through don't ever consider adding the Devastator. No matter how much I wanted this mech in game with these changes it would be a waste of dev time and resources.