1263 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Boyka, on 09 August 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

- Remove Gauss charge

Biggest mistake right there.

Sandpit, on 09 August 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

simple and elegant. solves all the issues.

amen

[Keyman1848]

The PPC nerf and the 2 Clan ER LL nerf are way overdone. The approach to doing everything at once is bad too. Things were not totally screwed up to warrant such drastic action.

Dropping the PPC speed by 200 meters a second would have been fine.

The dual Clan ER LL ghost heat penalty is ridiculous. Why don't you just prevent chain fire for everything then! 2 ER LL is standard on many clan variants. This invalidates standard builds. Very Wrong!

What about addressing what really needs to be fixed? - the pulse lasers! They need a buff.

Its time that more high heat penalties get put in the game - let players sit longer if they massively overheat. The tabletop game also had movement penalties and aiming penalties when mechs were too hot, these should be added and the ghost head mechanic removed.

Edited by Keyman1848, 09 August 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Boyka]

Reno Blade, on 09 August 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Boyka, the system you list there is what Paul had stated in the first post.
Only 2 of any PPC/Gauss combo can be fired together.

That's true but without charge a PPC/Gauss combo can be really fired together, now you have to split them in 2 weapon group and manage them in a not easily way.

By the way i like your convergence solution as well.. without gauss charge..

[IraqiWalker]

Boyka, on 09 August 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

That's true but without charge a PPC/Gauss combo can be really fired together, now you have to split them in 2 weapon group and manage them in a not easily way.

By the way i like your convergence solution as well.. without gauss charge..

I'm sorry but Gauss charge should never be removed.

It's the one good "nerf" (not really a nerf) that PGI has ever done.

[Boyka]

IraqiWalker, on 09 August 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'm sorry but Gauss charge should never be removed.

It's the one good "nerf" (not really a nerf) that PGI has ever done.

I respect your choice but i'm still with mine, for me Gauss charge should be removed, we've a different point of view.

[Sandpit]

I'm not a fan of "balance' by any kind of trigger mechanics. The UAC and Gauss mechanics aren't really needed to balance them. Convergence speed would take care of that. I can't stress enough how just slowing down convergence almost eliminates FLD doing PPD.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

AH Osprey 02, on 08 August 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

but after spending almost $3000 in this game and the non stop nerf's its just become to much.... some of the Atlashunters will be leaving... some will stay but it just takes the heart out of the game for a lot of us to spend money and then have what we bought changed ...

Wow if you start leaving, your awesome events will go too, and the cool promo posters and all the character and personality from the forums! And just when i finally have a decent PC that can get TS to play with you all!! Perhaps PGI HAVE made a big mistake here.
I even went back to Warthunder after a couple of games here yesterday... sad.

[Sandpit]

Keira_NZ, on 09 August 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Wow if you start leaving, your awesome events will go too, and the cool promo posters and all the character and personality from the forums! And just when i finally have a decent PC that can get TS to play with you all!! Perhaps PGI HAVE made a big mistake here.
I even went back to Warthunder after a couple of games here yesterday... sad.

PGI doesn't really care honestly. At least that's the apparent mentality

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 09 August 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

PGI doesn't really care honestly. At least that's the apparent mentality

I am disappointed that they ignored our suggestions too, but can we not go down the "negativity with no meaningful contribution" road?

I happen to use the DIre Whale quite frequently - just tonight for example - and the PPC speed nerf is dumb, but nowhere near worth quitting the game over. Same with the CERLL nerfs, though I never boated those to begin with.

[EvilCow]

Rather than limiting the delayed fire to Gauss/PPC combinations, why don't simply consider all the pinpoint weapons and using a single more general rule?

My proposal:
Any group whose damage is greater than 30 (example, if could be 25 or 32 or some other value) shall be fired in waves, up to 30 points in the first blast, the remaining after one second.

This can be applied to any weapon or combination of weapons, it is easy to understand and probably also makes the ghost heat pointless.

This would mean:
2GR = OK
3PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC +1AC10 = one delayed weapon
1GR + 1PPC + 1AC5 = OK
2AC20 = one delayed weapon
2LRM20 = one delayed weapon
and so on

One general rule.

Of course working on convergence and/or slots would be better but we can't have that because reasons...

Edited by EvilCow, 09 August 2014 - 11:54 PM.

[Boyka]

EvilCow, on 09 August 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Rather than limiting the delayed fire to Gauss/PPC combinations, why don't simply consider all the pinpoint weapons and using a single more general rule?

My proposal:
Any group whose damage is greater than 30 (example, if could be 25 or 32 or some other value) shall be fired in waves, up to 30 points in the first blast, the remaining after one second.

This can be applied to any weapon or combination of weapons, it is easy to understand and probably also makes the ghost heat pointless.

This would mean:
2GR = OK
3PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC +1AC10 = one delayed weapon
1GR + 1PPC + 1AC5 = OK
2AC20 = one delayed weapon
2LRM20 = one delayed weapon
and so on

One general rule.

Of course working on convergence and/or slots would be better but we can't have that because reasons...

That's nice, however LRMs are not pinpoint weapons; missiles spread damage along several locations.

And Clan ACs became pinpoint weapons only if your target is absolutely still, with moving targets the damage is spread cause the burst fire mode.

Your system might work for IS ACs, PPCs, Gauss and Clan ERPPC and Gauss.

Edited by Boyka, 10 August 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Sandpit]

Cimarb, on 09 August 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

I am disappointed that they ignored our suggestions too, but can we not go down the "negativity with no meaningful contribution" road?

I happen to use the DIre Whale quite frequently - just tonight for example - and the PPC speed nerf is dumb, but nowhere near worth quitting the game over. Same with the CERLL nerfs, though I never boated those to begin with.

I never said anything about quitting the game, i've also given PLENTY of constructive feedback on this. I'd be willing to give more if I knew they weren't just going to ignore it

[IraqiWalker]

EvilCow, on 09 August 2014 - 11:53 PM, said:

Rather than limiting the delayed fire to Gauss/PPC combinations, why don't simply consider all the pinpoint weapons and using a single more general rule?

My proposal:
Any group whose damage is greater than 30 (example, if could be 25 or 32 or some other value) shall be fired in waves, up to 30 points in the first blast, the remaining after one second.

This can be applied to any weapon or combination of weapons, it is easy to understand and probably also makes the ghost heat pointless.

This would mean:
2GR = OK
3PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC = OK
1GR + 1PPC +1AC10 = one delayed weapon
1GR + 1PPC + 1AC5 = OK
2AC20 = one delayed weapon
2LRM20 = one delayed weapon
and so on

One general rule.

Of course working on convergence and/or slots would be better but we can't have that because reasons...

Nope. That disables the alpha strike mechanic, and screws LRMs, and SRMs over.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 10 August 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Aim64C]

Cimarb, on 09 August 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

I am disappointed that they ignored our suggestions too, but can we not go down the "negativity with no meaningful contribution" road?

The absolute best thing that could be done is for PGI to release the art assets to the public domain after going bankrupt.

That is the most valuable contribution PGI could possibly make at this point, short of firing Paul and putting in competent business leadership - but even that would be mostly a waste as PGI has 'cleverly' cooked their books to make sure there is nothing left in the event of an asset seizure. Do the new maps really cost $250,000? Hell no. The maps, themselves, are not very costly.

Take Terra Therma, for example - the cost? The useless bit of construction equipment scattered around. Chalk up a bill for unique asset creation and some animation while throwing in the lawncare/snow shoveling costs during that time, and you've got $250,000 by time you factor in employee performance bonuses and server operation costs for the month it took to create the map.

Kind of like the useless bit of construction equipment with animations on Forest Village. Doesn't need to be there and is not at all a focal point of the map - yet costs money to put into the map when you have to pay studio artists.

Same with the "star gate" in Tourmaline.

The Canyon Network is about the only one that doesn't have a bunch of useless nonsense scattered about through it, and it came out during the 'rapid fire' release of maps back around April of 13.

So, as for what I expect from them - it's that they will waste their resources - deliberately - so that the game is effectively a cash-grab.

I know I am a 'negative nancy' - here, but when you look at the pattern of behavior, that is what it amounts to. Lots of empty promises with expensive products and development costs that make anyone connected to the computer industry perks an eyebrow at.

It would be like going to a fast food restaurant and having them argue that their burgers are 'artisan crafted' and therefor warrant a $20 charge for the burger. You'd look at the burger, look at the charge, and smack them in the face with the burger.

Of course, since people have no idea what is or is not a reasonable charge for various digital assets - they'll accept that a map takes a quarter of a million dollars to make without realizing that maps a hundred times more intricate with carefully crafted scripts get created by individuals for modding competitions for essentially free. And their collision models match up with their graphical models.

While being part of a company does mean that you have to pay for things that communities will self-create for free - claiming that it costs $250,000 is a massive stretch of the accounting. $50,000 would be a high-end for map development costs for games of this variety.

Which - I'm off on a tangent. Once I get started, I can just keep going and going. So I'll just stop, now - I have other things I've been neglecting elsewhere.

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 10 August 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

I never said anything about quitting the game, i've also given PLENTY of constructive feedback on this. I'd be willing to give more if I knew they weren't just going to ignore it

I was talking about the person earlier in the thread (you quoted the person that quoted it) saying a bunch of people from the Atlas Hunters were leaving the game because of these nerfs.

This one...

AH Osprey 02, on 08 August 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

but after spending almost $3000 in this game and the non stop nerf's its just become to much.... some of the Atlashunters will be leaving... some will stay but it just takes the heart out of the game for a lot of us to spend money and then have what we bought changed ...

[Reno Blade]

For now, I am OK with the changes because I look at it this way

2sec cERLL with high Ghost heat:
- Skilled players will be able to bring damage at extreme range like before. (1000+meters)
- Skilled players will put CERLL into arms to use them for brawling without armlock, because you need the precision to keep the beam on target.
- Skilled players will never shoot 3 or more together
- Skilled players will use more backup weapons rather than boat only cERLLs.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

slower PPC/erPPCs:
- Skilled players will train hard to hit targets
- Skilled players will close the range to effective range (540m / 630m), rather than maximum range
- Skilled players will put PPCs into arms to for better leading.
- Skilled players will take more backup weapons for medium and long ranges
- Skilled players will work with their team to make best use of the new effective ranges, like LRM users.
- anyone else will state the weapon is useless now and won't try to work on his skills or builds.

There are a lot of options for builds.
Mix it up, train to be more flexible, try new tactics and adapt.
disclaimer: This post is not meant to insult people, but rather to push people to try to improve their horizon (be it skill or perception).

[Cimarb]

I adapted by just swapping them out for LPLs on most of my builds, lol. My WarHawk seemed to do just fine with CERLLs (paired with LPLs), but he only has two anyways, so my build was pretty much untouched.

[Tombstoner]

Sandpit, on 09 August 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

simple and elegant. solves all the issues.

What i find histerical is that its acutaly a COF. The size of that cone is the spread of the weapons fire from the players skill to wait for convergence.

[Sandpit]

Tombstoner, on 11 August 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

What i find histerical is that its acutaly a COF. The size of that cone is the spread of the weapons fire from the players skill to wait for convergence.

no, no it's not you aim EXACTLY where you aim. There's no "cone" there's no deviance from exactly where your crosshair is.

Cimarb, on 11 August 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

I adapted by just swapping them out for LPLs

exactly. All it did was hurt PPCs, not actually fix anything

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 12 August 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

exactly. All it did was hurt PPCs, not actually fix anything

Yet the cycle SHALL continue...unfortunately...