576 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Yes, as an old man veteran of robot warfare

If one of the most sarcastic, rebellious hipsters on the forum turns out to be an old man, I'm uninstalling my internet.

[Lance Urban]

Lot of people are talking about clan mechs being over powered. I played all day as a clan we did win most games vs IS, but they were all fun, saw clan come back from a 2 vs 6 clan dead and win 11 to 10 twice.. saw clan down 6 to 0 and get to a 8- 12 loss for clan at end. Clan mechs are supposed to be powerful, but making odds more then 12 10 would be a problem IMO since both sides get DC players in about equal numbers.. but not at the same time. As part of community warfare a random 20 to 10 once in awhile is something I'd try play, as long as the usual battle is 12 10.

[wanderer]

Shock value: zero.

Try to remember that every Clan player is serious enough to have dropped a good chunk of money on MWO, while not only are many IS-only players casual F2P, every single noob in Trial 'Mechs is an IS player as well since there's no Clan trials out there to play with. While this doesn't mean Clan = better player, it tends to mean Clan = player that puts more time into the game along with his wallet.

And it only takes one-two scrubby players to tip the balance. Did you have plenty of (C) on your side on the IS, even a few? Then you likely also had that flaw that a Clan group will rip wide open waiting to begin.

Now, you start seeing them putting (C) Kit Foxes and such out there, and the average all-Clan PUG will start to drop in skill level.

Edited by wanderer, 30 July 2014 - 04:40 PM.

[Jman5]

Oh god dammit I missed another clan vs IS test. PGI, I appreciate that you guys are doing this stuff, but would it kill you to give us some advance notice? Or maybe even test it out during prime time?

Help me help you!

[KHETTI]

Soooooo, from these tests i'm guessing its gonna be 12 clan vs 12 IS cos PGI are to lazy to set it up like 10 v 12.
Crappy weight balancing that won't work will be the band aid to balance teams.
Yup making wild presumptuous guesses, but you know....

Also it seems from various threads i've just read, to be a hardcore veteran mechwarrior, i needed to drop 240 quid or there abouts for my p2w package, nothing to do with all the years i've played mechwarrior games online against others.

so its like this now is it:
F2P= casual noob player
P2W= hardcore vet player

[Roland]

Technoviking, on 30 July 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Wait.... pure pug...


So the players that love the game and spent money on it and probably play all the time...

Vs the players that still only have IS mechs because they play a couple times a month mixed with IS purists.


I could see that being very stompy, at this juncture.

These posts are always the best.

"Clans are totally balanced! They just roll the is mechs because of my elite skillzzzz!"

No dude. The vast majority of people piloting clan mechs are trash pilots, which is why you see so many people derping it up in them.

It doesn't take skill or experience or anything to drive clan mechs. It takes having access to a small amount of disposable income. That's all.

That's the problem with p2w.

Edited by Roland, 30 July 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Adiuvo, on 30 July 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Oh come on. What about the people running heroes on the IS side? Are they just casuals? Are these casuals somehow just getting grouped together while the other side gets all veterans? Do casuals somehow all have the same elo as these veterans?

Sorry man, but I am not feeling your opinion on this at all.... at least regarding my Arrow I just bought. It only has one Module slot, not two like the BJ-1. So my Bj-1 is already elite and has the third, I just got my Arrow mastered out for the x2 bonus a few matches ago. Only another 21,500 to get a second slot in the Arrow, which blows btw. lol So much for a advantage with the IS hero's....well at least this one. Other than the Cb increase per match, the Bj-1 is looking much better now that they have changed the module system up. Oh well, **** happens

Btw... they changed the modules right before I bought my Arrow, it was listed as coming with two modules, and a third that could be unlocked.... just like the BJ-1. I mean like a couple of hours before I dropped real money on mc and picked up the Arrow before the sale ended on the 29th

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 30 July 2014 - 06:24 PM.

[Scratx]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

These posts are always the best.

"Clans are totally balanced! They just roll the is mechs because of my elite skillzzzz!"

No dude. The vast majority of people piloting clan mechs are trash pilots, which is why you see so many people derping it up in them.

It doesn't take skill or experience or anything to drive clan mechs. It takes having access to a small amount of disposable income. That's all.

That's the problem with p2w.

Actually, one of the large factors is that all the trials are IS mechs. That means the IS side will very often have one or more newbies.

The clan side will tend to have more experienced players, but they do also have derpers.

The thing is, it really only takes being saddled with the newbies to heavily skew the match towards the side which doesn't have them. Every newbie that's still getting cadet bonus is little more than a moving target most of the time. Worse, with ISvClan it also means you are twice as likely than normal to have newbies on your team if you are the IS mech!

Is it any wonder that clan teams end up winning more often than not under those circumstances?


Sigh. The big problem really is that until we see clan trials, ISvClan will be skewed against the IS for the sole reason of being saddled with all the new players.

[Sandpit]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Yes, as an old man veteran of robot warfare, I can testify that being really old makes you superior. It's a bit like how the ancient karate master will always beat the young upstart in his physical prime.

Yeah, exactly like that.

no, but it does mean I have the advantage over new players of knowing how things work like
heat
torso twisting
weapon loadouts in general
how to build a mech
the pros and cons of xl vs. std engines
how lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults perform and why lights (even though the cheapest unit) aren't the easiest unit to use
armor placement
ammo placement

No, it doesn't make me a better pilot, but it does give me a distinct advantage because of my experience and knowledge of Btech and mechwarrior in general

Mystere, on 30 July 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

I wouldn't exactly trust data coming from the steering wheel underhive.

More seriously, though, I have this nagging suspicion that IS teams have more new players than Clan teams. If so, then the IS vs. Clan performance being seen is expected.

they HAVE to have more new players. The only new players on teh clan side are ones that bought a clan mech. EVERY other single new player is on IS side. That's a horrible way to collect data and it's ruined and skewed from the get go

[Mystere]

Flak Kannon, on 30 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

PGI has the metrics in hand now...

Oh how I would love to see these stats and hear them back track about how balanced the IS is to the Clans.

I have put alot of money into this game, I just want the TRUTH for a change. Is that so hard PGI?

I enjoyed the test, I am not yelling for nerfs to anything, but just want some transparency, something I think they have stated that they would like to offer the community.


PGI, how about you give us a baseline stats ... say... Win v Losses in this little test. Then we can have meaningful conversations.

The data is more likely than not skewed by the high probability of IS teams having more new players and Clan teams having more veterans. I predict that will be the #1 caveat that will be given when (and if) they decide to present the data they have gathered.

Edited by Mystere, 30 July 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[Roland]

Mystere, on 30 July 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

The data is more likely than not skewed by the high probability of IS teams having more new players and Clan teams having more veterans. I predict that will be the #1 caveat that will be given when (and if) they decide to present the data they have gathered.

Most veterans are not actually good at the game.

They have simply been playing poorly for a period of time.

[Vassago Rain]

Alistair Winter, on 30 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

If one of the most sarcastic, rebellious hipsters on the forum turns out to be an old man, I'm uninstalling my internet.

I'm 29, so the true old men would say that I need to grow hair on my chest and get some life experience.

[Adiuvo]

Bill Lumbar, on 30 July 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Sorry man, but I am not feeling your opinion on this at all.... at least regarding my Arrow I just bought. It only has one Module slot, not two like the BJ-1. So my Bj-1 is already elite and has the third, I just got my Arrow mastered out for the x2 bonus a few matches ago. Only another 21,500 to get a second slot in the Arrow, which blows btw. lol So much for a advantage with the IS hero's....well at least this one. Other than the Cb increase per match, the Bj-1 is looking much better now that they have changed the module system up. Oh well, **** happens

I wasn't saying heroes was OP, I was just using it as a counterexample to the reasoning the people saying 'clans are all veterans!!' are using.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Most veterans are not actually good at the game.

They have simply been playing poorly for a period of time.

You may be correct. But I think they're still better than new players.

[Triordinant]

The one possible good result of this is they'll have the numbers to justify the Binary vs. Company match model aka 10 vs 12. Still, it shouldn't have been sprung on unsuspecting players. Luckily, I won't be playing for at least 2 weeks until they undo the other fiasco regarding the very ill-advised changes to the Module system.

[SethAbercromby]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Most veterans are not actually good at the game.

They have simply been playing poorly for a period of time.

And what does that make you? That sounds like the sort of elitist bullcrap you get from self-entiteld hardcores. If you think yourself as a good player, learn some frickin humility.

- a filthy casual

[Aresye]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Yes, as an old man veteran of robot warfare, I can testify that being really old makes you superior. It's a bit like how the ancient karate master will always beat the young upstart in his physical prime.

Yeah, exactly like that.

Viges, on 30 July 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

lol wat, keep telling that to yourself, man, old age gives no benefits in the game of reactions. And even realtime strategies, that you could have been playing for 20 years, are dominated by kids under 25. So get real.

Taking things a little too literal here. By, "old fans," I meant those who've been playing since the earlier MW games, not, "Old," as at an age where reflexes and fine motor skills deteriorate.

I've been playing MW games since 1996. I'm 27. I played competitively in MW3 and MW4. Most of my piloting skills today are the result of playing MW3 and MW4 online on a 56k dial-up, and yes, I will outperform Joe Pug over there with or without Clan mechs.

[Mazzyplz]

Flak Kannon, on 30 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

PGI has the metrics in hand now...


Oh how I would love to see these stats and hear them back track about how balanced the IS is to the Clans.

I have put alot of money into this game, I just want the TRUTH for a change. Is that so hard PGI?

I enjoyed the test, I am not yelling for nerfs to anything, but just want some transparency, something I think they have stated that they would like to offer the community.


PGI, how about you give us a baseline stats ... say... Win v Losses in this little test. Then we can have meaningful conversations.

are you calling the posts in the general discussion thread meaningful discussions? LOL

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 30 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

These posts are always the best.

"Clans are totally balanced! They just roll the is mechs because of my elite skillzzzz!"

No dude. The vast majority of people piloting clan mechs are trash pilots, which is why you see so many people derping it up in them.

It doesn't take skill or experience or anything to drive clan mechs. It takes having access to a small amount of disposable income. That's all.

That's the problem with p2w.

?
lol
It doesn't take skill or experience to pilot an IS mech, it just takes a PC and mouse. What's your point?

That's the problem with online games

Dude, come on man, that argument makes no sense. Just because someone doesn't agree that clans are op or P2W has nothing to do with metrics concerning skill levels of clan pilots.

[Fyrerock]

I was playing for an hour today on the clan side and I observed some strange things from the IS side. For one many of the IS pilots either charged by themselve into multiple clan mechanical making easy kills. Or they would stand in the open not moving or twisting and keep fighting till they died. Many of the clan mechs were using lasers, and with the way the IS mech's were playing it was easy to get max damage from lasers.

I seen a highlander engage a TW in a brawl in the open with 3 other clan mech's in weapon range. Or an atlas not moving or twisting with 5 clan mech's in close range. Or even better 2 IS mech's not moving from starting location and not twisting as 4 clans mech's open fire.