576 replies to this topic

[JigglyMoobs]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

People say IS needs to git gud because sub 200 damage rounds.

Well, it's pretty difficult to git gud when you get blown up from outside your max range by MAXIMUM ALPHA power and stunlocked by blurms for minutes at a time. The endless rain of red smoke, and my LBX can't even fire solid shots back at them.

You lost me at LBX.

[Flak Kannon]

PGI has the metrics in hand now...


Oh how I would love to see these stats and hear them back track about how balanced the IS is to the Clans.

I have put alot of money into this game, I just want the TRUTH for a change. Is that so hard PGI?

I enjoyed the test, I am not yelling for nerfs to anything, but just want some transparency, something I think they have stated that they would like to offer the community.


PGI, how about you give us a baseline stats ... say... Win v Losses in this little test. Then we can have meaningful conversations.

[Wrenchfarm]

Davegt27, on 30 July 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

Instead of crying about the clans we should talk about beating them

This is the thing I keep seeing again and again here and I've seen before in other horribly unbalanced games.

Listen, whenever one class/mech/character type/etcs strategy is "find the enemy and attack them" while the other sides counter strategy is some complicated quantum equation of "hit&fade, make sure you're in perfect position, don't let them see you, work in perfect concert, synchronize your watches..." YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

When one side has to work 20x harder than the other to prevail, that isn't a case of developing a strategy to deal with an enemy, that's players desperately working against crappy game design.

[Bongo TauKat]

I think this is more of the same argument, same griping, and in the end I just play to have fun.

[990Dreams]

HellJumper, on 30 July 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

as the title says

and guess whos winning....mainly that is

So why not buy the clearly superior option?

You have a choice:

A rock
An M1 Abrams.

And you pick the rock, because you have only ever known instant gratification (the rock).

Those who are smart save up for an Abrams and win. The smart and/or the brutal live. The stupid die. Simple law.

[Mavairo]

I have a suggestion.

Remove the champion mech players from the ques.

Or better yet... do this test in the group que.
Solo Que, isn't a test of anything.

[JigglyMoobs]

Guys, what's happening is something like this:

First, there are probably good pilots playing IS mechs and Clan mechs, but on AVERAGE, there are a few MORE good pilots in the Clan mechs. Thus, the Clan team is effectively playing with a couple more doers.

Secondly, all the IS folks look at the line up and think, just like what they are saying on this thread, OH NOES, ALL CLANS WE ARE ********. So before the match even starts, they are at a psychological disadvantage.

Now the match starts and the psychology of inferiority makes the IS team EVEN MORE timid than the usually timid PUG teams. Meanwhile the clan team is brimming with confidence, thinking that it probably has the advantage.

So the clan team gets the first kill, and the second, and the IS team thinks: OH NOES, OUR WORST FEARS CONFIRMED!!!

And it all degenerates from there. The neuroses and paranoia on the IS team builds up to paralyzing levels while the few good guys who are putting up a fight get focused fired and out of commission.

It basically turns into an avalanche of fail and well before the 10 min mark, it's ggclose.

[Aresye]

Tharnes, on 30 July 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

The balance is completely broken currently. There are teams full of Timbers running around, alphastriking the IS mechs to shreds, they just don't overheat enough.
60€ give you a guaranteed 600+ damage, no matter how bad you play the clan heavys/assaults. This is pure p2w, no excuse for it.

We need massive nerfs for clans and/or harsh matchmaking, more than 1-2 clan are overkill in any team.

I'm a fairly decent player and while I'll have quite a few matches 900+ in a Timberwolf, the vast majority of my games are between 400-600. I've gotten 1200+ damage in plenty of IS mechs, and only 1-2 Clan mechs thus far.

It is far from a, "guaranteed," 600+ damage. We have plenty of junior players with Clan mechs in our Clan and they MIGHT get 200-300 damage if they have a good game, often averaging around 100-200.

Now, looking at this logically, it's hard to determine exactly how the balance truly plays out. I'm assuming this is a solo queue thing, right? Right off the bat you've got a problem. I doubt anybody spends a large chunk of money before they play the game for a couple weeks, so at the very least you have the most brand new of players placed on the IS side, and players that have played for at least a few weeks on the Clan side. Regardless of how much a player still sucks after 2-3 weeks of playing, they're still going to be drastically better than a player during the first few days of playing.

Elo also plays a role, since currently new players are placed in the middle of the Elo range. There's a good chance a lot of new players found themselves on the IS side against founders, vets, and competitive players running on the Clan side.

What we've needed (and still need) are 12v12 matches between players of relatively equal skill, and as long as new players can only run IS trial mechs, the statistics behind these, "ninja tests," will remain skewed.

Edited by Aresye, 30 July 2014 - 03:44 PM.

[Djinnhammer]

I played about 10 games in my Summoner. Won 8 of them,6 by a massive stomp. Lost 2 due to whole team standing about.
The two games that were close, the Is team had a lot of FLD and were aggressive. The more passive they were-the faster they died.
Noticed high dps clan mechs getting taken swiftly by 2-3 FLD Is mechs a few times. It seems to me when IS plays to their strengths and are actually aggressive-they do better.

[Yokaiko]

Szovi Annaijs, on 30 July 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

.
The two games that were close, the Is team had a lot of FLD and were aggressive. The more passive they were-the faster they died.

That is no differnt from IS vs IS or mixed games. The team that camps the least is usually victorious, they don't have the 3 losses from ramboes and peek-a-boos etc.

[MischiefSC]

Because of delay in clan mech release it will be 5 months before we will be ~30 days from the earliest possible attempt at viable clan vs is population/cross balancing metrics can be collected.

[Der BierVampiR]

AH Osprey 02, on 30 July 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

Someone has to pay for the game... their not working for free over there

The problem is maybe that PGI will lose its playerbase. I have had put 80$ in MWO and its still only a deathmatch and teamdeathmatch shooter, oh and of course a king of the hill shooter! And i will not put 450$ in MWO only to have the p2w feature. And i do not do this because i could not efford it but because i consider that as simply unreasonable.

The balance of MWO is partly broken since the so called "clan invasion" and maybe that was intentional by the devs to sell a lot of the clan chassis. But if MWO shall have a feature as a competitive Mech-MMO then PGI need to rethink there game design.
But of course (as other mentioned) its a problem that only the is-mechs are available for beginners. But if the faction warfare should be about is against clans, then i do not see a way around a balance patch which would either make is mechs a bit stronger, or clan mechs a bit weaker. Basicly they should work on the weapons i believe.

Edit: Btw. sorry for my bad english, i`m not a native speaker.

Edited by Der BierVampiR, 30 July 2014 - 03:58 PM.

[Viges]

Viktor Drake, on 30 July 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

The only people running clan mechs right now are those they are the dedicated players.

Yes because only dedicated players can buy clans, right? Because that makes no sense at all and thats how logic works!

Actually its quite the opposite, because f2p players play more than p2w, especially when you need at least $50+ to buy just one chassis (and thats pretty much the price of the whole AAA game). So clan players are almost all pretty old fans of battletech with bad reactions or people that dont play much because of work and rl. People that keep telling how not op clans are and how good they are. Bs.

[Vassago Rain]

JigglyMoobs, on 30 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

You lost me at LBX.

I am currently farming FRIENDSHIP bonuses, so having a shotgun with 1620 meters range lets me tag madcats before they can shoot me.

[Aresye]

Viges, on 30 July 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

So clan players are almost all pretty old fans of battletech

And as old fans, one could accurately assume quite a few of them have nearly 2 decades of experience with the MW franchise, thus making them extremely good players, and are likely better pilots than most F2P players.

[Vassago Rain]

Aresye, on 30 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

And as old fans, one could accurately assume quite a few of them have nearly 2 decades of experience with the MW franchise, thus making them extremely good players, and are likely better pilots than most F2P players.

Yes, as an old man veteran of robot warfare, I can testify that being really old makes you superior. It's a bit like how the ancient karate master will always beat the young upstart in his physical prime.

Yeah, exactly like that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 30 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Yes, as an old man veteran of robot warfare, I can testify that being really old makes you superior. It's a bit like how the ancient karate master will always beat the young upstart in his physical prime.

Yeah, exactly like that.

Master Shimabokoru(67) could mop the floor with my 20 year old backside. As could a 60 Y/O James DeMiles when I was in my 30s.

Old age and treachery will overcome youth and vigor.

As to your being an old man... Yer barely 30, I'm just shy of 50! Old man my creaking hips!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Jman5]

Mazzyplz, on 30 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

the sides aren't even because the trial mechs are falling into the IS side so newbs only for IS

They adjusted matchmaking last patch so beginners have even lower Elo and its locked until 25 matches.

[Mystere]

HellJumper, on 30 July 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

pugs..pure pugs it seems....all 3 of my matches were pugs...

I wouldn't exactly trust data coming from the steering wheel underhive.

More seriously, though, I have this nagging suspicion that IS teams have more new players than Clan teams. If so, then the IS vs. Clan performance being seen is expected.

[Viges]

Aresye, on 30 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

And as old fans, one could accurately assume quite a few of them have nearly 2 decades of experience with the MW franchise, thus making them extremely good players, and are likely better pilots than most F2P players.

lol wat, keep telling that to yourself, man, old age gives no benefits in the game of reactions. And even realtime strategies, that you could have been playing for 20 years, are dominated by kids under 25. So get real.