576 replies to this topic

[Lala Satalin Deviluke]

Nice, no new mechs or new weapons for IS. But instead we finnaly got IS vs CL.

Gr8 job PGI. Stop smoking weed next time b4 making a patch.

[KharnZor]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 31 July 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Most of us IS players spent money too.. I have spent over $100 on this game already.. So now I have to spend MORE if I want to be competitive? That just feels like extortion.

That is not only lame, but will make CW an absolute failure and spell the end to this game.

You do realize that IS PP FLD absolutely dominates the clans DOT weaponry right? You don't have to spend more just use your brain when you do your build.

[Vassago Rain]

KharnZor, on 31 July 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

You do realize that IS PP FLD absolutely dominates the clans DOT weaponry right? You don't have to spend more just use your brain when you do your build.

Yes, my 25 damage alphas with 600 meter range will destroy the clans and their 900 meter ER medium laser batteries, dual gauss rifles, splash damage ER PPCs, half tonnage missiles, and stream fired blurms.

[Yukichi Fukuzawa]

Even on small maps in pug drops, the IS loses almost ever time. Cant really compete at range. A good clan team vs good is team the clanners will win unless the IS can close and coordinate.

[Mcgral18]

Vassago Rain, on 31 July 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yes, my 25 damage alphas with 600 meter range will destroy the clans and their 900 meter ER medium laser batteries, dual gauss rifles, splash damage ER PPCs, half tonnage missiles, and stream fired blurms.

A 55 tonner can mount dual gauss?

[SethAbercromby]

Vassago Rain, on 31 July 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

No, I am one of most notable bad players in the game, and my main mechs are DDCs and banshees. Did you even look at my shadowhaw? It has a single LBX and a PPC.

That is a pretty badass build. My Yen-Lo-Wang is based on a lot of the same ideas. It's main problem is that it lacks real offensive power against 'Mechs that still have a good amount of armor due to the weight of the STD275, so I usually stick beind the larger 'Mechs and wait for opportunities to ambush targets with exposed components to cripple them. SPLs perform better in tandem with the MG, but severely reduces my reach compared to MLas. They seem to work much better for what I'm using them for though, so I stuck with them.

[Vassago Rain]

Mcgral18, on 31 July 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

A 55 tonner can mount dual gauss?

No. They mount like 5 ER mediums and SRM18 instead.

[MischiefSC]

Yes, but my new toys should be mine and at least a bit better than what the space poors/f2p peasants get for several months.

Otherwise how can I make spending real money feel like I have skill, or at least am overall better than the space-poors?

Whats next, only selling cosmetics and premium time for money? Nobody spends money on games unless they are buying an advantage....


right?

[Vassago Rain]

SethAbercromby, on 31 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

That is a pretty badass build. My Yen-Lo-Wang is based on a lot of the same ideas. It's main problem is that it lacks real offensive power against 'Mechs that still have a good amount of armor due to the weight of the STD275, so I usually stick beind the larger 'Mechs and wait for opportunities to ambush targets with exposed components to cripple them. SPLs perform better in tandem with the MG, but severely reduces my reach compared to MLas. They seem to work much better for what I'm using them for though, so I stuck with them.

We could be brothers!

[Phaeric Cyrh]

KharnZor, on 31 July 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

You do realize that IS PP FLD absolutely dominates the clans DOT weaponry right? You don't have to spend more just use your brain when you do your build.

No, I don't realize that.. In fact every Clan V IS match I played (4) were all ROFLstomps in favor of the clans (12-4, 12-2, 12-0, 12-0).. And it wasn't just that all of us IS pilots suck (sorry to burst your bubble), it's because the superior range, damage and weight of the Clan weapons combined with better heat sinks and XL engines that don't die when losing a side are simply better than what the IS can field. The only draw back is heat, which again is negated by the better heat sinks and lower weight of the engines and weapons.

If one side is forced to only a few viable builds, and have to use more advanced tactics to win, there is a problem with the game balance.

Edited by Phaeric Cyrh, 31 July 2014 - 12:15 PM.

[WVAnonymous]

TL;DR

Did anyone already cover the fact that lots (possibly most) of the Clan packages went to players who have been and expect to be playing a lot?

The Clan mech pilots are not a random sample of players. Also, if you're willing to drop real money, you're probably more likely to spam air/arty because it's only c-bills.

[Vassago Rain]

WVAnonymous, on 31 July 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

TL;DR

Did anyone already cover the fact that lots (possibly most) of the Clan packages went to players who have been and expect to be playing a lot?

The Clan mech pilots are not a random sample of players. Also, if you're willing to drop real money, you're probably more likely to spam air/arty because it's only c-bills.

I've been spamming strikes since they were introduced. I did not give PGI a penny, and likely won't ever.

We have a grand total of 4 people in my guild who grabbed the final deal.

[WVAnonymous]

Vassago Rain, on 31 July 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

...
I did not give PGI a penny, and likely won't ever.
...

You have some odd tags on your signature for never having given PGI a penny...

[MajorLeeHung]

12v12 Clan should win EVERY TIME. Anyone who has read the books or played TT knows clans never sent more then 2/3 of the IS forces on the planet so that it was a "fair" fight.

[Mcgral18]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 31 July 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

No, I don't realize that.. In fact every Clan V IS match I played (4) were all ROFLstomps in favor of the clans (12-4, 12-2, 12-0, 12-0).. And it wasn't just that all of us IS pilots suck (sorry to burst your bubble), it's because the superior range, damage and weight of the Clan weapons combined with better heat sinks and XL engines that don't die when losing a side are simply better than what the IS can field. The only draw back is heat, which again is negated by the better heat sinks and lower weight of the engines and weapons.

If one side is forced to only a few viable builds, and have to use more advanced tactics to win, there is a problem with the game balance.

Well...if my IS gundam can get 200 damage...why the hell can't yours?

Pilots are a big factor in this....and running off to face 5 Clan mechs Rambo style doesn't contribute very much to the team effort. In my IS vs Clan matches, 7 players failed to get 200 damage each time. 10 failed to reach 300, and 9 in the second match.

[Dreddex]

The clan mechs being overpowered is why I hardly play them anymore, it's just not fun having the huge advantage, I like a challenge. The only challenge I have in a clan mech is breaking 1300 from time to time as TBR DWF and SCR easily break 1k most matches. IS mechs present a real challenge facing clan mechs since you have to play super careful and use your brain a lot more. I just have to adapt and scrap most of my brawling builds (which most of my mechs are) in favor of weapons with greater range flexibility, and dropping XL engines in favor of STD due to the high alpha of most clan mechs.

[IraqiWalker]

Funny, My matches went the way of IS. Maybe it had something to do with people learning how to torso twist?

Even though this last match wasn't during the IS vs. Clan test, my new Protector (bought it during this last sale), with NO basics on it. AC20,2SRM6,2ML. STD300. Tore through three T-Wolves (two of them are S variants) on HPG Manifold. Plus a Jenner, a Stormcrow, and half a Warhawk. (the other half killed me)

MajorLeeHung, on 31 July 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

12v12 Clan should win EVERY TIME. Anyone who has read the books or played TT knows clans never sent more then 2/3 of the IS forces on the planet so that it was a "fair" fight.

That's nice and dandy, but the books have no place here. Other than just guide lines. If we used the clan mechs as they were in the books, clan mechs would just stomp every time, and no one would be using Inner Sphere mechs, customized or not.

Right now, clan mechs excel at long range, and damage over time. They win stare-down contests easy. (that's why you want to torso twist a lot against them.)

While IS excels at short range brawling, and high damage in short durations, burst damage, or PP FLD. You want to get close to a clan mech, force them to fire their hot weapons more than they need to, and blow them up. Or just hit and fade, you can do it, unlike them.

It's why the Daishi beats the Atlas at long range, but loses in short range to it, in a non-confined area. It can't follow an atlas well enough, and the Atlas can use shield arms.

[IraqiWalker]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 31 July 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

No, I don't realize that.. In fact every Clan V IS match I played (4) were all ROFLstomps in favor of the clans (12-4, 12-2, 12-0, 12-0).. And it wasn't just that all of us IS pilots suck (sorry to burst your bubble), it's because the superior range, damage and weight of the Clan weapons combined with better heat sinks and XL engines that don't die when losing a side are simply better than what the IS can field. The only draw back is heat, which again is negated by the better heat sinks and lower weight of the engines and weapons.

If one side is forced to only a few viable builds, and have to use more advanced tactics to win, there is a problem with the game balance.

You really didn't read the specs on the clan mechs did you? Most clan mechs take to the field with no more than 16-17 DHS on them. The same amount as IS mechs. Plus the quirks each chassis has do have negative effects on them.

If you try to compete with the clans at what they excel at, you will lose. Conversely, if the clans try to compete with IS at what they excel at, clans will lose. Adapt, and adjust your tactics.

Anyone that thinks clan mechs don't have to adjust their tactics, and only the IS mechs are forced into a specific position is wrong.

I've been playing this game long enough that I can take DoT builds against clans and expect a good performance, but I make no mistakes, a pilot of equal skill will beat me, because I handicapped myself.

Clan mechs have to focus on DoT because none of their weapons (other than Gauss and ERPPC) offer PP FLD. While IS has access to both systems, they are better than clans at PP FLD.

[Phaeric Cyrh]

IraqiWalker, on 31 July 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

You really didn't read the specs on the clan mechs did you? Most clan mechs take to the field with no more than 16-17 DHS on them. The same amount as IS mechs. Plus the quirks each chassis has do have negative effects on them.

If you try to compete with the clans at what they excel at, you will lose. Conversely, if the clans try to compete with IS at what they excel at, clans will lose. Adapt, and adjust your tactics.

Anyone that thinks clan mechs don't have to adjust their tactics, and only the IS mechs are forced into a specific position is wrong.

I've been playing this game long enough that I can take DoT builds against clans and expect a good performance, but I make no mistakes, a pilot of equal skill will beat me, because I handicapped myself.

Clan mechs have to focus on DoT because none of their weapons (other than Gauss and ERPPC) offer PP FLD. While IS has access to both systems, they are better than clans at PP FLD.

I have read the Clan weapon stats.. They do more damage, have more range, take up less space and weigh less than the IS counterparts. The engines have the weight of an XL but behave like a Standard engine for IS as far as damage. The fact it takes slots is meaningless since the weapons and heat sinks take fewer slots. The weapons causing more heat is compensated because the heat sinks work better,

If you want to go off pure specs and math alone, there is no doubt the clan tech is OP. The only argument people had was that real life scenarios in game are more nuanced than math on paper and that things balanced out in real fights.. Well, we've had a couple MM changes to allow IS v Clan matches and guess what? The math really does play out. The clan tech is more powerful than IS on paper AND in the game.

As far as all your matches going to IS, screenshots or it didn't happen. Everyone else I have talked to has experienced massive clan rolls, with the IS getting a couple kills if lucky.

Edited by Phaeric Cyrh, 31 July 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 31 July 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

You didn't respond really I already know that you are in denial. You make it your point to defend "clans are balanced" with ferocity evidence be damned.

As far as all your matches going to IS, screenshots or it didn't happen. Everyone else I have talked to has experienced massive clan rolls, with the IS getting a couple kills if lucky.

Ah, the tumblr effect. Everyone that agrees with you knows what they are talking about and everyone that tries to convince you otherwise is ignorant, a fool or obviously lying. He's put the nail on the head with his analasys, but I'll provide you with a Tl;dr

Clanners have trouble when combat gets close and personal. A lot of IS 'Mechs are very comfortable with facehugging and putting pressure on enemy 'Mechs. That's where most clan builds start to fall apart due to high heat, long cycle times and lack of burst damage.

Just as clanners have to be aware of not getting too close into combat where the enemy can use those disadvantages against them, do IS 'Mechs have to conversely look for opprotunities to get close and apply pressure on 'Mechs that are not designed to handle it.