576 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

I think some of you are missing the point.

In a mixed environment the clans are OK.. They are stronger, but it's not a big deal, I usually run light or medium mechs so I'm used to encountering tougher mechs then me.. I routinely do 200-400 damage in my Raven 3L, and 500-1000 with my Blackjack since the clans came out.

However, it is obvious when looking at the stats, and when playing them that the Clan mechs are indeed tougher/stronger than their IS counterparts, and that point is driven home with force when PGI has turned on IS v Clan in the match maker.. Everyone I have talked to, and everyone in this thread except those who have a history of ardently defending the "clan balance" have reported clan rolls during C v IS matches.

I don't think I am in the minority when I say that I really want community warfare. And as it stands now that will not succeed.. If the clans remain as they are, everyone will switch to them when they come out for C-bills and there will be no one fighting for the inner sphere.

i have no doubt clans are stronger than IS it was on purpose but PGI's test is stupid and explains but the bleeding obvious along with a whole bunch of other variables that makes this convaluted as well. ranged combat was broken in 2012 and as soon as the hit reg got a bit better and weapons no longer delayed/got fixed, bam long range only meta. clans have the best ranged weapons so yeah professor derp could've told us about it.

thing is i just gonna say look back to dec-jan posts about clans, if they were nerfed hard the sales would've been worse but sales weren't good either cause they shoehorned clan tech into an broken unfinnished imbalanced game in the first place. clans will be nerfed when really they should've been regulated with many of the good suggestions made. instead {master perks, soo very tonnage, not much BV, very paywall} of course PGI don't want to cut down to 10v12s etc hell they're making you divey up for that private match privalige and you reckon they'll improve MM with anything like BV and tonnage restrictions, look how broken 3/3/3/3 is.

but hey PGI got thier money so they can screw the game up as much as they please and you guys literally paid for it.

enjoy your loyalty points.

[anonymous161]

Khushrenada, on 30 July 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

just had the same happen to me.... 12 clan vs 12 is.... stompfest.
canon wise it would be 8 clan vs 12 is or something like that and that actually might be balanced, right now its a ******* joke.

and now we also have arti spamming... thanks pgi for ruining my fun completely after i just had found my way back into the game after a long time and was having some fun.

I as well am sick of the arti spamming. It's just no fun.

This game currently just not built to have the clan mechs in the game, now if this had a single player that was very well done and added the clans in like an expansion would have been epic...but currently the game just not balanced right and I dont want clans nerfed in any way to make IS mechs more powerful.

[Voidcrafter]

Davegt27, on 01 August 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

I wish they would bring Clan VS IS back just to convince the non believers. I want it back for other reasons its fun its a challenge, that day we also had IS vs IS and they where longer more boring matches. I had to change my load out after getting stomped by Clan mechs, I went from five AC2's to two AC2's and two AC5's. those DW are a hard nut to crack I mean if I am alone I run, an atlas man that thing is almost worthless
JMTCW

Well on that I can agree - from all the Clan mechs I like the Direwolves the least - buuut probably it's because of the maps and my own intellectual properties
Meaning:
even REALLY slow and huge as the mech is, I often find myself in a situation where I just came across face to face with a DWF - which, of course - ain't the most helthiest thing in the universe...
The maps partially allow this to happen, cause most of them have some place where you could either wait in ambush or you can get around the open spaces and, no matter how slow you are, pull your oponents in your game - I know that since I am playing brawler since I started the game.
I personally think that the speed and the maneurality of the DWF are not enough drawbacks for the insane hardpoints and firepower it currently has - but that's my personal opinion - and not withot prejustice, because as I said I play as a brawler

But on the other hand - being able to kill a healthy DAKKA(or meta) DWF face to face in a "fair" combat feels really satisfying, even though that ocassion occurs really rarely...
On the third hand - if the DWF didn't existed at all I was going to ravage stuff about twice as effective as I do now - but hey - easy mode aint my thing.

[Votanin FleshRender]

This kind of test shouldn't have been done until there were trial clan mechs, to spread the new players between the sides instead of the IS being handicapped with all (or MOST) of the new players. How many trial mechs, on average, did the IS have on their teams every game?

[VanillaG]

You can't look at the screenshots of 12-3 victories/losses and come to the conclusion that Clans are overpowered. There are screenshots of IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan with those same types of outcomes. When I play it is common to see these types of victories/losses in mixed mode. My suspicion is that the changes to the MM to support 3/3/3/3 and Clan vs IS types of matches has done something to make matches more lopsided. Before that change I would see matches that ended much closer. My guess is that ELO is a lesser priority when it comes to creating matches so you end up with an unbalance on the skill between the teams.

[Piney II]

It's going to take A LOT more testing of Clan v I.S before any reasonable conclusions can be made. The few hours that were played cannot be considered a good sample.

Deep breaths, everyone...........

[Phaeric Cyrh]

VanillaG, on 01 August 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

You can't look at the screenshots of 12-3 victories/losses and come to the conclusion that Clans are overpowered. There are screenshots of IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan with those same types of outcomes. When I play it is common to see these types of victories/losses in mixed mode. My suspicion is that the changes to the MM to support 3/3/3/3 and Clan vs IS types of matches has done something to make matches more lopsided. Before that change I would see matches that ended much closer. My guess is that ELO is a lesser priority when it comes to creating matches so you end up with an unbalance on the skill between the teams.

If it were as random as you try to make it sound, how come we didn't see rolls in favor of the IS then?

[Scratx]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

If it were as random as you try to make it sound, how come we didn't see rolls in favor of the IS then?

The better question is : "Why are the clan teams consistently performing better than the inner sphere teams, based on what players have been reporting?"

And until we manage to exclude the effect of trial mechs hobbling the inner sphere teams and the psychological impact (a lot of people seem to be so convinced clans are OP that they're just about ready to give up when they face a clan team entirely, which turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy), I assure you there will be raging debate over whether there IS actually an advantage to be had overall on the clanner equipment.

[Kubernetes]

IraqiWalker, on 01 August 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

That's why good players use cover, and have no problems dealing with clan mechs.

You've seen HPG Manifold. I regularly engage clan mechs there at under 200 meters. Do I do that with magic? No, proper positioning, and not charging in blindly.

That's one map. On many maps the engagements start at max range. Is it possible to play a close range brawler? Yes, but it's considerably harder.

And why do people always resort to the "if you're a good player" response? What if your Clan opponent is an equally skilled pilot? You think he'll let you get into AC20 range unmolested? Congrats on your new Orions. I've got almost 1million xp across my Orion chassis (P, K, VA), and a well-equipped TWolf is better than pretty much every build I can dream up on an Orion. The only one that might hang is a K with Gauss + 2PPC + 2 ML.

Again, you may find success with your IS mechs, you may have some great rounds (brawler Phract 3D-- 5 kills on Canyon yesterday, including 4 Clanners), but you likely would have done better in a Clan mech.

Why are people so upset about the fact that the Clan mechs are objectively superior? Isn't that in the canon? It's not like the IS reaction to the invasion was "Oh, these Clan mechs are different from ours. Not better, but just different."

[VanillaG]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

If it were as random as you try to make it sound, how come we didn't see rolls in favor of the IS then?

If you look back through the thread there are examples of IS teams winning and IS vs IS teams getting rolled by the same numbers. I don't have an explanation other than to say that using rolls as a metric is not good.

I get the same types game results when playing mixed teams every day. In my experience it is normally the team the makes the fewest mistakes gets the roll. Once a team is down a few mechs it starts rolling down hill pretty fast. Maybe the better mobility of the Clan mechs makes it easier to form the deathball earlier so they are more likely to get in early kills which tips the scale in their favor. Without looking at the matches to see what happened it would be really hard to figure out.

[Phaeric Cyrh]

VanillaG, on 01 August 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

If you look back through the thread there are examples of IS teams winning and IS vs IS teams getting rolled by the same numbers. I don't have an explanation other than to say that using rolls as a metric is not good.

I get the same types game results when playing mixed teams every day. In my experience it is normally the team the makes the fewest mistakes gets the roll. Once a team is down a few mechs it starts rolling down hill pretty fast. Maybe the better mobility of the Clan mechs makes it easier to form the deathball earlier so they are more likely to get in early kills which tips the scale in their favor. Without looking at the matches to see what happened it would be really hard to figure out.

I have read the whole thread.. Do you have screen shots of these IS rolls of the clans, cause I don't recall seeing them.

[Ph30nix]

Phaeric Cyrh, on 01 August 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

I have read the whole thread.. Do you have screen shots of these IS rolls of the clans, cause I don't recall seeing them.

any screen shots from pug groups would be borderline useless for proving or disproving balance.....
ive seen plenty of screenshots of premade 12v12 matches where it ended up very even.

I really hope PGI doesnt try to balance anything based off about 70% of the player bases abilities....

[Tharnes]

Ph30nix, on 01 August 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

I really hope PGI doesnt try to balance anything based off about 70% of the player bases abilities....

Please don't act like the Clans require any serious amount of skill, or represent a "better" playerbase.
Hitting the alphastrike-button on the Clans until the game is over is quite manageable.

[Charons Little Helper]

Anyone else hoping they keep clans a bit OP and just have matches be 12v10? Or better yet - add creeps on the IS side until balance is reached. (low AI tanks/choppers etc - they don't have to be smart - just there)

Clan: We'll meet you on the field of honor with 12 mechs! You may bring 12 of your own!

IS: Okay. *cough* plus a dozen tanks and a half dozen choppers *cough*

Clan: What was that?

IS: Nothing... nothing at all.

[Phaeric Cyrh]

Charons Little Helper, on 01 August 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Anyone else hoping they keep clans a bit OP and just have matches be 12v10? Or better yet - add creeps on the IS side until balance is reached. (low AI tanks/choppers etc - they don't have to be smart - just there)

Clan: We'll meet you on the field of honor with 12 mechs! You may bring 12 of your own!

IS: Okay. *cough* plus a dozen tanks and a half dozen choppers *cough*

Clan: What was that?

IS: Nothing... nothing at all.

My concern is that if you keep the clans the way they are, everyone will simply buy them and play them. Most players aren't going to be content playing with what they know to be inferior hardware, even if the that advantage isn't huge. Sure you will have the hardcore's who will live and die with the IS, but that is far and away the minority. If CW is going to succeed they are going to have to make people feel they are on even footing.

[Tezcatli]

They'll probably address the issue in the most feeblest way. Like putting an Elo penalty on Clan mechs

[SolasTau]

My initial reaction to all this is simply unnerf the nerfed IS weapons. See where that puts things.

ML's. SL's, and AC2's were all nerfed from what I understand. There's probably more, I haven't been playing very long. IMO, it's time to pull the gloves off the Inner Sphere. It sounds like a small change, but I bet it'd be bigger than you'd think.

[Mcgral18]

Kaspirikay, on 01 August 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

Mech with single UAC 20 beats mech with single AC20. What a surprise.

Clan mechs are just plain better than IS mechs. It is pretty much expected by many of us by now, anyone who thinks an IS mech can 1v1 a clan mech is delusional.

also im back guys

Actually, I'd place my money on the isAC20 nearly every time. 4 damage shells VS 20 damage...big difference. Easily spread damage from the UAC.

I guess I'm delusional. I assume Clan lights are superior to IS lights? I'd also take a Banshee against any Clan assault.

JJ nerf hurt the IS heavies and Meds a fair bit, so those are up in the air. Muromets has firepower to take down a Timby at mid range and up close, 3D can pack more firepower while being more fragile.


Though, I'll assume you're not calling the Cute Fox, Badder or Summoner OP, are you?

[Vassago Rain]

Creovex, on 01 August 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Either my ELO is really low or really high as I have never seen this. In my experience, IS players (I play 50/50) who know how to play their Mech of choice end up being on the winning team..... the mechs in my ELO (whatever it is) are WAY less important than the skill of the pilot in it.

It's always the guys with the big clan packages that defend clan balance.

[Mcgral18]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's always the guys with the big clan packages that defend clan balance.

Except Mr Mallan.