576 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Actually, I'd place my money on the isAC20 nearly every time. 4 damage shells VS 20 damage...big difference. Easily spread damage from the UAC.

I guess I'm delusional. I assume Clan lights are superior to IS lights? I'd also take a Banshee against any Clan assault.

JJ nerf hurt the IS heavies and Meds a fair bit, so those are up in the air. Muromets has firepower to take down a Timby at mid range and up close, 3D can pack more firepower while being more fragile.


Though, I'll assume you're not calling the Cute Fox, Badder or Summoner OP, are you?

UAC20 crushes regular AC pretty consistently. You twist to shoot your AC20, I twist and take your shot on the arm or other torso. You've now got nothing for 4 seconds. I tap for my UAC20, you twist but I spread 20 points over the two locations; 12 where I want it, 8 where I don't. You're getting about 1.5 seconds of screen shake, I got 0.25 seconds of screen shake. I then tap again, 1.5 seconds later, to drop another 20 points on you, now pretty much all where I want it since you're backing up, twisted sideways but otherwise not swinging like before since you can't even see where I am all tucked back protecting your damaged torso.

Then you swing back....

So in that exchange I'm going to put 40 points on you, only some where I want it but still chewing you up. You're going to spend 3 out of every 4 seconds eating AC20-grade screen shake.

Unless your aim is 100% perfect every single time your PPFLD advantage isn't an advantage - it's a problem. You miss or don't hit my CT, it's all but wasted. I'm going to pummel you like a puppy in a dryer. I can say from experience (I really like the UAC20 and have used it a great deal) that against PPFLD brawlers it absolutely crushes.

Where it fails is overall, at range. Clan mechs like the TW function best with several weapons they can cycle through. End of the day I'm getting more BOOM at better range out of 2xUAC5s.

For a face wrecking brawler though, point blank? The UAC20 is stupidly effective. Stupidly. Most people just don't use them though because there's only a couple of mechs that can mount them at all and they make significant sacrifices to do so. It's not that a UAC20 isn't boss; it's that 2 CERLLs and some extra DHS are *even better* most of the time. Is uses the AC20 more often because due to the IS hardpoint limitations it's not the same sacrifices.

UAC20s though, pretty much like this.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

UAC20 crushes regular AC pretty consistently. You twist to shoot your AC20, I twist and take your shot on the arm or other torso. You've now got nothing for 4 seconds. I tap for my UAC20, you twist but I spread 20 points over the two locations; 12 where I want it, 8 where I don't. You're getting about 1.5 seconds of screen shake, I got 0.25 seconds of screen shake. I then tap again, 1.5 seconds later, to drop another 20 points on you, now pretty much all where I want it since you're backing up, twisted sideways but otherwise not swinging like before since you can't even see where I am all tucked back protecting your damaged torso.

Then you swing back....

So in that exchange I'm going to put 40 points on you, only some where I want it but still chewing you up. You're going to spend 3 out of every 4 seconds eating AC20-grade screen shake.

Unless your aim is 100% perfect every single time your PPFLD advantage isn't an advantage - it's a problem. You miss or don't hit my CT, it's all but wasted. I'm going to pummel you like a puppy in a dryer. I can say from experience (I really like the UAC20 and have used it a great deal) that against PPFLD brawlers it absolutely crushes.

Where it fails is overall, at range. Clan mechs like the TW function best with several weapons they can cycle through. End of the day I'm getting more BOOM at better range out of 2xUAC5s.

For a face wrecking brawler though, point blank? The UAC20 is stupidly effective. Stupidly. Most people just don't use them though because there's only a couple of mechs that can mount them at all and they make significant sacrifices to do so. It's not that a UAC20 isn't boss; it's that 2 CERLLs and some extra DHS are *even better* most of the time. Is uses the AC20 more often because due to the IS hardpoint limitations it's not the same sacrifices.

UAC20s though, pretty much like this.

17% jam chance for 5 seconds of no dakka is nothing to ignore either.

I'll stick with the 20 PP FLD.

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

17% jam chance for 5 seconds of no dakka is nothing to ignore either.

I'll stick with the 20 PP FLD.

1 in 5. 5 double-cycles is 200 damage. If I haven't killed you by the 5th double-tap I am probably going to choke on my tongue long before I figure out how to use the minimap to locate you, not to mention aim well enough to shoot you.

[Vassago Rain]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

1 in 5. 5 double-cycles is 200 damage. If I haven't killed you by the 5th double-tap I am probably going to choke on my tongue long before I figure out how to use the minimap to locate you, not to mention aim well enough to shoot you.

Yeah, as we all said before they went through with this, jam is only a factor for low DPS guns that need lots of uptime to win.

Oh my god, one of my four UAC20 bursts never happened!? Too bad every mech I fought was dead by then.

[Yokaiko]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

1 in 5. 5 double-cycles is 200 damage. If I haven't killed you by the 5th double-tap I am probably going to choke on my tongue long before I figure out how to use the minimap to locate you, not to mention aim well enough to shoot you.

Considering the four second refire and damage spread, the uAC20 isn't the beast you think it is.

[Vassago Rain]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Considering the four second refire and damage spread, the uAC20 isn't the beast you think it is.

But it is. It's just that gauss+ER PPC combo is far superior. So are braces of ER mediums.

Imagine that. Clan weapons are mostly bad because they have far, far superior options.

[Yokaiko]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Oh my god, one of my four UAC20 bursts never happened!? Too bad every mech I fought was dead by then.

You give mechs 16 seconds of facetime and expect to survive it? Don't need ANY AC20 to accomplish that.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

1 in 5. 5 double-cycles is 200 damage. If I haven't killed you by the 5th double-tap I am probably going to choke on my tongue long before I figure out how to use the minimap to locate you, not to mention aim well enough to shoot you.

A Banshees arm has 96 IS+A, the torso will have over 100 frontal IS+A. 200 wouldn't be enough to break though that and the CT. You wouldn't be able to focus more than 3 shells, or 12 damage, on the CT before it's been twisted out of sight.

There are also two arms, and an entire shield torso if we're going with a single AC20vs UAC20. Have fun padding your stats.

[Yokaiko]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

But it is. It's just that gauss+ER PPC combo is far superior. So are braces of ER mediums.

Imagine that. Clan weapons are mostly bad because they have far, far superior options.

I can't wait till you guys get these for c-bills.

[Mcgral18]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

But it is. It's just that gauss+ER PPC combo is far superior. So are braces of ER mediums.

Imagine that. Clan weapons are mostly bad because they have far, far superior options.

Yeah, Clans do have the only assault with ballistics in multiple torsi. Mauler might not be enough at 90 tons, but we'll see.

[Vassago Rain]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

I can't wait till you guys get these for c-bills.

Yeah, I can't wait for heavily nerfed freeplayer scum versions of today's OP P2W clanmechs, either, all available for the low, low cost of some 20 million c-bills per useful variant.



Oh, wait.

[Yokaiko]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Yeah, I can't wait for heavily nerfed freeplayer scum versions of today's OP P2W clanmechs, either, all available for the low, low cost of some 20 million c-bills per useful variant.



Oh, wait.

You should likely stop whining about them being so superior then.

[wanderer]

Samual Kalkin, on 31 July 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Aren't LORDS and Steel Jag top competitive teams? If you were really that bad, you wouldn't facing them. I've never seen anyone in any match that I could recognize as one or who claimed to be one, but I really do play in the scrub leagues. I LOL whenever anyone in match brags about how good they are and how much the rest of us suck. If the MM is putting them in a match with me, they can't be all that good.

With the way the MM scrapes low for players and the limited number of groups, it is very, very easy to be in the group queue and get smacked with a comp-level team for a matchup. You can tell when the number of weapons on the other side suddenly drops down to the meta-optimal selections and red smoke rises like endless offerings.

[Mcgral18]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Yeah, I can't wait for heavily nerfed freeplayer scum versions of today's OP P2W clanmechs, either, all available for the low, low cost of some 20 million c-bills per useful variant.



Oh, wait.

If they follow the same price scheme as the Cute Fox and Nova, they'll be kinda reasonable priced.

https://docs.google....RoSQ/edit#gid=0

[Vassago Rain]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

If they follow the same price scheme as the Cute Fox and Nova, they'll be kinda reasonable priced.

https://docs.google....RoSQ/edit#gid=0

I don't feel a 14-18 million madcat is 'reasonably priced.'

[MischiefSC]

Mcgral18, on 01 August 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

A Banshees arm has 96 IS+A, the torso will have over 100 frontal IS+A. 200 wouldn't be enough to break though that and the CT. You wouldn't be able to focus more than 3 shells, or 12 damage, on the CT before it's been twisted out of sight.

There are also two arms, and an entire shield torso if we're going with a single AC20vs UAC20. Have fun padding your stats.

I run a Banshee build with AC20 and LPLs. She does good and up close she's a MONSTER. You are comparing the 90 ton banshee with the 75 ton TW (again) but that is the point, isn't it? You need to go to a 90ton IS mech to 'balance' against a 75 ton Clanner. That's the basis of the issue - that a 75 ton Clanner mech has to be put against something in the 90-100 ton range for 'balance'. That's not balanced, that's exactly the concern.

Here's the problem though when I compare the two weapons.

Up close that UAC20 isn't a sledge hammer, it's a jackhammer. I can hit and swing in my Orion, sure. The problem though is that I'm looking through AC20 grade screen shake for literally 3 out of every 4 seconds. That's WHY I get so much stare down time in my TW - I can see you just fine. You can't see me for crap - because I'm pounding you like a 1-man pornstar gangbang. When I do have that 1 second cycle time, I twist to show you what I want you to hit; or generally I just swing back and forth to spread whatever you're trying to share. You get your 1 chance at a clean hit... then you've got to duck back while I'm plowing on ahead, getting 3 full seconds of face-crushing continuous beat-down that I can walk to the location I want. Do I get the full damage on location? No, not always. Not the first burst anyway. Normally by the 2nd burst though you're half-blinded, walking backwards and you've twisted your right side as far as you can but you're otherwise static - you can't tell where I am because of the screen shake. So my second burst is right on target, both for AC and lasers.

The only reason the UAC20 isn't an issue is that like I said, few loadouts for it and because other builds are even better. SRMs, CERLLs and CERMLs make for stupid-dangerous brawlers. 2xUAC5 + 4CERMLs is generally a better dakka build. Even more DPS.

The UAC20 is better than the AC20. The terrible bit is that Clan builds don't really even need it.

[Mcgral18]

MischiefSC, on 01 August 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I run a Banshee build with AC20 and LPLs. She does good and up close she's a MONSTER. You are comparing the 90 ton banshee with the 75 ton TW (again) but that is the point, isn't it? You need to go to a 90ton IS mech to 'balance' against a 75 ton Clanner. That's the basis of the issue - that a 75 ton Clanner mech has to be put against something in the 90-100 ton range for 'balance'. That's not balanced, that's exactly the concern.

Here's the problem though when I compare the two weapons.

Up close that UAC20 isn't a sledge hammer, it's a jackhammer. I can hit and swing in my Orion, sure. The problem though is that I'm looking through AC20 grade screen shake for literally 3 out of every 4 seconds. That's WHY I get so much stare down time in my TW - I can see you just fine. You can't see me for crap - because I'm pounding you like a 1-man pornstar gangbang. When I do have that 1 second cycle time, I twist to show you what I want you to hit; or generally I just swing back and forth to spread whatever you're trying to share. You get your 1 chance at a clean hit... then you've got to duck back while I'm plowing on ahead, getting 3 full seconds of face-crushing continuous beat-down that I can walk to the location I want. Do I get the full damage on location? No, not always. Not the first burst anyway. Normally by the 2nd burst though you're half-blinded, walking backwards and you've twisted your right side as far as you can but you're otherwise static - you can't tell where I am because of the screen shake. So my second burst is right on target, both for AC and lasers.

The only reason the UAC20 isn't an issue is that like I said, few loadouts for it and because other builds are even better. SRMs, CERLLs and CERMLs make for stupid-dangerous brawlers. 2xUAC5 + 4CERMLs is generally a better dakka build. Even more DPS.

The UAC20 is better than the AC20. The terrible bit is that Clan builds don't really even need it.

You stated UAC20, never which mech. I stated AC20, without a mech as well. Perhaps with a BJ, which doesn't have much armour, will indeed fall to the innaccuate firepower, but not the larger ones.

95 tons, by the way.

[Yokaiko]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

I don't feel a 14-18 million madcat is 'reasonably priced.'

Comes with XL, Endo, Ferro and DHS.

14 is about what you would spend on an IS 75 tonner with every upgrade included, hell I drop 12 on IS mediums by the time I'm done with them most of the time.

Attempt to be real.

[KhanCipher]

Yokaiko, on 01 August 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Comes with XL, Endo, Ferro and DHS.

14 is about what you would spend on an IS 75 tonner with every upgrade included, hell I drop 12 on IS mediums by the time I'm done with them most of the time.

Attempt to be real.

except i usually don't buy three XLs for the 3 variants to elite a IS chassis, and don't get me started on how often the XL300 is used.

Edited by KhanCipher, 01 August 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's always the guys with the big clan packages that defend clan balance.

I only own one Clan mech, but they seem alright to me. Who said Clan mechs were supposed to be balanced with IS mechs? Again, when the Clan invaded, the IS reaction was not "These Clan mechs are different, but not really better." The Clan mechs are supposed to be better, a step-change qualitative improvement in weaponry and tech.

And ffs, PGI is going to release the Clan mechs for CBills in the next few months, so just hold out if you don't want to spend money. There's just an ungodly amount of whining for a game that is nominally free.