15 replies to this topic

[Aaren Kai]

So, I was thinking... Why are modules equal to magic wizards and the restrictions are there because someone said so?

Why not make them equipment? Like BAP? Give them weight and slots. You want that big gun or do you want Seismic sensor and a medium gun?

Maybe even put some common sense restrictions to them? Like a weapon module that gave you faster reload time, but it has to be in the same area as the weapon? Engine speed tweets but only in the torso areas?

Dunno... Just trying for something creative and different than 'PGI sucks threads'

[CocoaJin]

I like it damn it...I like it!
Now get out of here before you come up with another good idea...they don't take to kindly to that stuff around here.

[Alistair Winter]

It has been suggested before many times.

It's still a very good idea.

And it's never going to happen.

EDIT: I don't mean to be negative and try to kill your thread here. Just "don't get your hopes up", is all I'm saying.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 01 August 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Interesting ideas. What if Endo was included and modules cost 14 fruit slots. It goes shaking PGIs sell-sell-sell methodology, but would introduce a much needed opportunity cost to modules. They would not all need to take up 14 slots, it would be based on effectiveness.

[El Bandito]

Then how does one balance Artillery Strike module? Some will argue that a simple communicator and smoke designator will take less than 0.5 tons and 1 slot.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I like the idea of using modules to modify installed equipment, so BAP would open some module slots, Command Console another subset and so on.

Here's a mock-up:

Spoiler

For Strikes I'd say use TAG, but I'd also remove it from needing an Energy Hardpoint, and create its own unique slot like AMS or ECM.

Spoiler

That way TAG can have another use aside from just spotting for LRMs. Also, with limiting all mechs to one strike as proposed, I'd say allow the Spider 5V to have a specific quirk that lets it fire two strikes as any mech currently can.

Since it is supposed to be a spotter mech and only has two energy in the Torso, it shouldn't cause much of a problem and gives it a little more value to bring into a match.

[John1352]

That would be very terrible! Someone who hasn't played long enough to grind out the modules would be on a level playing field with someone who has! Completely ridiculous!

^ developer logic summarized

[Bhael Fire]

Aaren Kai, on 01 August 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Why are modules equal to magic wizards and the restrictions are there because someone said so?

Because this is a BattleTech game and the equipment follows the lore as close as feasibly possible. Modules are just an abstraction designed to skirt that lore without breaking it, allowing the player to "advance" within the game in a tangible way.

Next question...

[CocoaJin]

El Bandito, on 01 August 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Then how does one balance Artillery Strike module? Some will argue that a simple communicator and smoke designator will take less than 0.5 tons and 1 slot.

Meh, so you choose between AMS and raining God's vengeance on people from across the map at the click of a button. In fact, God himself might wish he could rain fire and brimstone so easily.

[Cest7]

Modules won't cost weight.

[SirLANsalot]

I see a lot of missing the POINT of modules.

Think of them as computer upgrades on your mech, and PGI has said that is what they are. They are nothing more then adding in a few more strings of code or a new chip or two into your mechs cockpit, no more, no less. They weigh NOTHING in comparison to the rest of the stuff being put onto your mech. The canister that you put on your mech for either firing off the flair for an Arty/Air, or the UAV drone, or even the Coolant flush (ya there bending it on that one) really don't take up, or add anything to your mech. The CF are just small pods of some really really cold stuff that have a small charge to break the can so it runs over your mechs heatsinks. Would be cool if they eventually added in some animation for them when you use them, so your opponent knows you just used your shots.

The Consumables are just "bolt on" things, like tossing on some boxes to the top of your car and strapping them down.

[Aaren Kai]

Praetor Knight, on 01 August 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

I like the idea of using modules to modify installed equipment, so BAP would open some module slots, Command Console another subset and so on...

Okay, I see where your going. Each module is an extension/add on to a base component.

So quick pass...

BAP is base for anything detection like. Seismic, radar, UAV etc...
TAG is base for artillery, air strikes (and you laugh at the energy slot in AWE and Hunchback head)
Command unit is for data sharing, enemy status etc (requires feeds from BAP?)
Coolant is an engine add on (requires space) and boosts engine heat sinks capacity only...
ECM (needs a nerf to just being a delay on locks) is base for lock suppression and command unit sharing
Each weapon is base for weapon enhancement (requires space)

It's got legs!


Yes, this is an exercise in wall-to-head bashing... No illusions.

[Khobai]

Unfortunately its not possible to do this since it would screw up stock mechs. Stock mechs wouldnt be able to use modules.

[Thunder Child]

SirLANsalot, on 01 August 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

I see a lot of missing the POINT of modules.

Think of them as computer upgrades on your mech, and PGI has said that is what they are. They are nothing more then adding in a few more strings of code or a new chip or two into your mechs cockpit, no more, no less. They weigh NOTHING in comparison to the rest of the stuff being put onto your mech. The canister that you put on your mech for either firing off the flair for an Arty/Air, or the UAV drone, or even the Coolant flush (ya there bending it on that one) really don't take up, or add anything to your mech. The CF are just small pods of some really really cold stuff that have a small charge to break the can so it runs over your mechs heatsinks. Would be cool if they eventually added in some animation for them when you use them, so your opponent knows you just used your shots.

The Consumables are just "bolt on" things, like tossing on some boxes to the top of your car and strapping them down.

Lol.
Not picking holes SirLansalot.

I've read some of the novels, and I can imagine the hernia that the chief tech would have if you told him he had to wire in something like a seismic sensor. Most of these mechs are third or fourth generation hand me downs that are held together with spit and bailing twine. I remember in one of the novels, they had to crosswire the patchwire of the bypass, to override the hotfix on the quickfix, so that they could startup the mech long enough for diagnostics...... huh..... reminds me of windows..... anyways....

Would love to see animations for all these extras though, as you've said. And yes, Modules are supposed to be bolt-on bonuses. Like I said, not disagreeing with your idea. Just got a chuckle out of it, because of the novels.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Things can and will continue to evolve for MWO's Role Warfare; at least that is what I took away from reading this Command Chair post.

And I how our Mech Tree Efficiencies currently work, also need to be addressed, since they provide really nice boosts themselves (too good, IMHO from Lights to Assaults, including Speed Tweak and 2x Boosts).

---

There are some modules that can stack with equipment right now so, I don't see why existing equipment and modules cannot evolve to benefit the game and meet the goal of providing Role Warfare to the players in the near future.

So going with the example of BAP, right now it modifies:
Sensor/Targeting Range
Target Info Gathering
and Sensing Shutdown mechs

Module wise, we currently have:
Sensor (Targeting) Range
and Target Info Gathering

So if we get adjustments to base ranges on mechs as suggested here, than exploring the idea of giving equipment the capacity to be modified further provides more variety and some flexibility in various builds used by players, and make certain equipment more valuable for different battlefield roles.

---

Also, I'd like to see Consumables as match exhaustible resources. And I'd like to need to mount equipment, something like MWO-centric Pressurized Coolant Deployment systems like Coolant Pods to use those cooling Consumables.

Then with Strikes and TAG, an alternative module that can be explored is a Counter Battery Module that will increase the cooldowns for Strikes in Matches (I visualize the Artillery having to move around farther, to avoid getting destroyed before being able to fire, and then having to reposition again after firing.) That way players have a choice to use strikes or just seek to counter them.

---

The key though is reworking how much these proficiencies / 'upgrades' cost to the benefit they provide, so that it is accessible to old and new players alike.

Right now, most are too expensive and need price adjustments, if these will be used to help provide for Role Warfare regardless of what the devs name/rename them, or how 'Modules' will further change in the future.

[Sandslice]

SirLANsalot, on 01 August 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

I see a lot of missing the POINT of modules.

Think of them as computer upgrades on your mech, and PGI has said that is what they are. They are nothing more then adding in a few more strings of code or a new chip or two into your mechs cockpit, no more, no less. They weigh NOTHING in comparison to the rest of the stuff being put onto your mech. The canister that you put on your mech for either firing off the flair for an Arty/Air, or the UAV drone, or even the Coolant flush (ya there bending it on that one) really don't take up, or add anything to your mech. The CF are just small pods of some really really cold stuff that have a small charge to break the can so it runs over your mechs heatsinks. Would be cool if they eventually added in some animation for them when you use them, so your opponent knows you just used your shots.

The Consumables are just "bolt on" things, like tossing on some boxes to the top of your car and strapping them down.

Some of them (notably consumables) arguably aren't:

-Coolshots are in fact TT gear: 1 ton, 1 crit. Can expend one per round to gain extra cooling equal to your number of heat sinks. (20 DHS = 20 heat sinks, not 40.) Trigger 10-point ammo explosions if crit.

-"Advanced Gyro" doesn't exist in TT per se (that is, there's no gyro that gives a bonus to Piloting checks or increases the damage-to-PSR threshold); but there are several alternate gyros in TT. The Mech4 equivalent to Advanced Gyro required 1-4 tons, scaled by weight class.

-Mech4 artillery beacons were missile weapons: 5 tons, 1 M slot, 2 shots per ammo-ton. You could argue this as a game balance concern.

-Zoom was a one-ton gear in Mech4, but this one is silly.