81 replies to this topic

[TyrEol]

The same caveats apply to running mediums as have for a long time, you don't have the armour of a heavier mech, so positioning and knowing when not to engage is key.

However the recent buff aka fix to SRMs hit registration means that a big engine, SRMs and some backup weapons makes for some very viable? well at least fun hit and run / ambush / urban brawling.

I've spent most of my matches the last couple of weeks playing ASRMx18 + ML griffins or LRM, ML griffins and it's been a lot of fun.

I'm moving about 105 with tweak and it's great to be playing such a mobile mech with that kind of fire power.

[EyeOne]

Kintaro and Tecb are bad. The rest of the Mediums are fine. I think honestly people are just bad at piloting mediums so they assume mediums suck. I could reach the conclusion that Heavies suck because I suck at Heavies. But I know they don't. It's me.

I could easily only pilot mediums for the next 12 months and be a happy person. Griffins, Wolverines, Huncbacks, Cicadas and Blackjacks are all great. And if I could only pilot one mech for the next 12 months: Griffin-1N. Done.

[Andross Deverow]

Koujo, on 05 August 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Been away awhile. I keep checking the news on this game and it seems all I ever see is a sale on some premium mech. I was hoping to see medium mechs get a buff. Seems they were always caught between heavy and light mechs without the speed to out manuever heavies or the firepower to hit back.

Did I miss something or is it just the same game I left a year ago?

They dont suck per say but they are fragile as always. With the massive alphas certain mechs can dish out mediums can get dropped pretty fast.

Regards

[Lily from animove]

Mister D, on 05 August 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

The JJ nerf royally ****** over (surprise!?) mediums.
Thanks Paul. dip$#@!.

Mediums need their JJ's the way they were, 100% or they're just not worth it.

Then you take a mech like the Quickdraw, which is by all intents and purposes still a Medium, and it got hurt even more.

JJs work superfine on my nova.

The real issue is, the current HP/armor of mediums vs a meta build mech makes you die with the same amount of strikes as a light mech does. So more armor is not practically true. But still you are slower than the light.
And the Stormcrow, well yeah, haha, thats basically a heavy mech weapon loadout in a medium mech chassis. thats why its a competitive medium. But most others can't pull that off.

look into the group queue, nearly no lights and mediums. Thats has a reason. Sure you cna make a medium work, but why? 3/3/3/3 is not forced. And so you better use a heavy whcih works even more.

actually, I think they shoul make forced 3/3/3/3 and if the slots can' be filled with the mechs, the match should start with those slots empty. Maybe this would make people softly to force them using mediums. Especially premade group may then use variety. Now a grp of 8 man can drp with only assaults and heavies. WHY? no sense in this at all.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 August 2014 - 05:34 AM.

[Starbound]

Mediums I've had success with:
Stormcrow: Obvious, its pretty quick and can sport some good weapons. FF + ES make this a class act.
Blackjack: This is a fun one, I run an AC20 or a gauss and 3 ML... people tend to ignore you until they hear the boom.
Cicada: These are freaky fast almost lights but I run them with an XL and play them like a light. Lasers abound, 3M or X5.
Nova: Don't be the frontline, tail a group or a heavy/assault and you will melt faces especially on the prime or S variants.

Mediums I've heard good things about:
Shadowhawks
Griffins
Centurians (mostly the Yen lo Wang which can be played like a blackjack or stormcrow C)

I think I enjoy mediums the most of any class because of the variability. You have bigger mechs that keep up with the lights, smaller mechs that brawl with the big boys and generally are just better able to support. Each medium is different though, you can't play them all the same like you can with the other classes. Some are support (Blackjacks and Novas excel there), some are scouts (Cicadas, the 3M especially) and some are down to duke it out (like the Stormcrow).

Just my 2 C-Bills.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Vassago Rain, on 05 August 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

The BJ was always bad.

With maybe the exception of the A/C20 and 3MLaser variant.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mediums are still able to carry weaponry that can do damage and are still fairly nimble and quick.

The key with Mediums is you need to be a bit more sneaky with them (similar to light mechs). They aren't toe to toe brawlers. I have some more geared for long range shooting and some arranged for short range hit-and-fade attacks.

I run a few different types.

I have the snipers-ish setups.

• Shadow Hawk 5M with 3 A/C2s (or sometimes 2 A/C2s and an UA/C5 depending on my mood). Back it up with 2 SRM4s for up close damage
  
• Shadow Hawk 2D2 with 1 A/C2, 2 LLasers, 4 SSRM2s
  
• Kintaro 18 with 2 ERLLaser, 5 SSRM2s

All of them have some short range punch as a deterrent for lights and to help soften up bigger targets

Short Range

• Hunchback 4P "Swayback" 9MLasers
  
• Hunchback 4G 1 A/C20, 2MLasers, 2MGs
  
• Centurion (C) 3 SRM4s and 1 A/C5

Hunches are all short range hard hitters, Centurion is kind of a mix.

I wish we had some really short range maps. Tight urban enviroments where LoS is relatively short and buildings made LRM work difficult to pull off. We have a pure long range map like Alpine, why not a pure short range map?

[Yokaiko]

MeiSooHaityu, on 06 August 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I wish we had some really short range maps. Tight urban enviroments where LoS is relatively short and buildings made LRM work difficult to pull off. We have a pure long range map like Alpine, why not a pure short range map?

Forest, Frozen, River Sh!tty

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yokaiko, on 06 August 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Forest, Frozen, River Sh!tty

Nope

I can still see across those maps.

• Forrest has a huge sight distance across the water and beach.
  
• River City has across the River (high city area and starport have long LoS across the map).
  
• Frozen has large LoS lines too as long as you are on a building (but it is close to being confined).

Nope, I want a TIGHT urban enviroment. I don't want to see beyond 800m at any given point. Street no wider that 3 mechs side by side. Lots of cover, lots of alley ways. Something really claustrophobic. You have that and you will have a fun playground for Mediums.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 06 August 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Its good to want.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yokaiko, on 06 August 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Its good to want.

Yea, it is good to want...hope and dream.

It would help buck meta at least on one map. Like you imply, ain't going to happen.

[Jman5]

You can't really play a medium as a brawler unless you're dropping in the group queue with other brawlers. Otherwise your contribution to the team will too often be either too late when the game is basically decided (the mop up push), or you'll die early doing negligible damage. Don't be fooled by damage numbers of the missile carrying mediums. A lot of their damage is usually on mop up and forcibly spread all over an enemy mech. Also a lot of people will tell you they are brawlers, but they don't actually play that way if you watch them. Or if they do, they die early a lot.

There are two viable roles for you though.

Striker: Hit and run style where you do a big hit and then fade back behind cover. Heat isn't a big deal in this play style because you're only really concerned about that one big sucker punch and then you should have all the time to cooldown while you prepare for that next strike. I would advise you to put an XL engine if your weapon choice allow it because it will let you go faster and pack a bigger punch.

Harasser: Pack some long range weaponry and just pick away at enemies. ER large Lasers, LRMs, PPC, Gauss. Your long range makes you flexible and a near constant contributor to the fight. Positioning slightly away from the group can make it impossible for the enemy team to organize a push if you're pecking away at them every time they peak out. XL is a must again and your distance makes heat a secondary concern. That said it is more of a DPS playstyle than striker, so do what you can to manage heat.

Both play styles tend to be sub-par in a sustained brawl so avoid those when you can.

There is also a light-hunter role which can be fun, but it's not really worth investing in the current game's environment. There are too few lights out there and those you do see tend to be long range harassers that you can deal with by using regular builds. Also because lights are so difficult to play they are more often than not a non-factor in the match.

Edited by Jman5, 06 August 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Roland]

Jman5, on 06 August 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

Harasser: Pack some long range weaponry and just pick away at enemies. ER large Lasers, LRMs, PPC, Gauss. Your long range makes you flexible and a near constant contributor to the fight. Positioning slightly away from the group can make it impossible for the enemy team to organize a push if you're pecking away at them every time they peak out. XL is a must again and your distance makes heat a secondary concern. That said it is more of a DPS playstyle than striker, so do what you can to manage heat.

I think this role is one of the reasons why the Ryoken is so strong.

It's ERML are effectively long range weapons, or at least can function effectively as such. This lets you be kind of effective at range, but then when you get a chance to get close, you can just start crushing things with 18 SRM's.

And of course, the fact you have a Clan XL and can afford to lose a side torso makes it far more useful than IS mediums in this role.

[DAYLEET]

Medium mechs are fine. Been mostly playing only mediums last months from gauss/ppc treb to a lrm boat Goldenboy to my beloved srm LG and every weird loadout in between. Also i am probably better at identifying when i screw up rather than blame the mech IM piloting than most people.

[Angel of Annihilation]

EyeOne, on 06 August 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Kintaro and Tecb are bad. The rest of the Mediums are fine. I think honestly people are just bad at piloting mediums so they assume mediums suck. I could reach the conclusion that Heavies suck because I suck at Heavies. But I know they don't. It's me.

I could easily only pilot mediums for the next 12 months and be a happy person. Griffins, Wolverines, Huncbacks, Cicadas and Blackjacks are all great. And if I could only pilot one mech for the next 12 months: Griffin-1N. Done.

Honestly this is so true. There are many, many mechs that the "masses" think are bad that only suck because people don't take the time to learn to play the right or in many cases to build them right. I think this is human nature.

Basically people generally gravitate toward what is easier, including what is easier to understand. Therefore mechs with lower learning curves, as long as they are effective, become the most popular. Then anything with a higher learning curve is decried as being inferior or outright sucking, even if some people or even a fairly large minority claim or prove otherwise.

[Lefty Lucy]

Viktor Drake, on 06 August 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

Honestly this is so true. There are many, many mechs that the "masses" think are bad that only suck because people don't take the time to learn to play the right or in many cases to build them right. I think this is human nature.

Basically people generally gravitate toward what is easier, including what is easier to understand. Therefore mechs with lower learning curves, as long as they are effective, become the most popular. Then anything with a higher learning curve is decried as being inferior or outright sucking, even if some people or even a fairly large minority claim or prove otherwise.

Going by the comments in this thread, "the masses" (i.e. the majority opinion) seems to think that mediums are fine.

[EekaBlitzer]

I had started to really like playing my medium mechs, and although I've had some still rather enjoyable games with them , it eventually gets a bit annoying to be getting lower scores due to the fact that, on average, they are never going to be able to kick out the damage, or take the damage that a heavier mech can.
Could the tonnage of the mech, and possible if its Clan or not, be used to generate a modifier to a players ELO, so that the lighter the mech the lower ELO rating will mean that they can still, on average, earn a decent x/p and c-bill return for their time ?

[mogs01gt]

The issue isnt with the Medium mech, the issue is the lack of game options since everything we have is TDM.

I would love a CTF game mode!!!

[Pacifist]

EekaBlitzer, on 06 August 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

I had started to really like playing my medium mechs, and although I've had some still rather enjoyable games with them , it eventually gets a bit annoying to be getting lower scores due to the fact that, on average, they are never going to be able to kick out the damage, or take the damage that a heavier mech can.

This sums it up. I run an AC20 BJ almost exclusively simply because it's out of my dozens of mechs it's the only one I still have fun playing. It's still annoying that heavies and assaults sweep the score board most of the time simply because they can absorb and deal out more damage.

If the lighter mechs received a exp/cbill bonus when destroying a larger mech it would encourage more people to play them.

The AC20 and jj nerf have both hurt my primary build and receiving an increase to torso twist rate has not exactly made up for it.

Edited by Pacifist, 06 August 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Dymlos2003]

I'm good in all my mediums.