51 replies to this topic

[Graugger]

Predetermined matches are a friggin joke and that's all this friggin game has to offer at this point. MM doesn't compare "skill" it looks at how many matches you've won and lost and decides what it needs to do to try and bring your win loss ratio to 1. People complain about no skill and OP weapons, well **** its the friggin players using them that the games putting you with so that you have no choice but to lose.



Enemy team has 5 more clan mechs AND 70 more tons. Yes I put extra crap on the image to do the math.

This isn't a true FPS it's a ******* move game with predetermined ******* battles

Edited by Graugger, 06 August 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Sandpit]

smh
yup, no free will, your game is predetermined before you ever even login

[Noth]

I don't see anything predetermined about that. I see that is a stomp, but I've seen stomps happen when they shouldn't. Also, pretty much all match makers that have ELO involved try and push your w/l towards 1. It is not abnormal, nor is it predetirmining a match.

[Sean von Steinike]

Looked like you had an afk person on your team. But hey, guess that was predetermined as well?

[Sandpit]

let me explain why your "feedback" is "bad"

One, your'e complaining about what exactly? That your matches are predetermined?

Graugger, on 06 August 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Predetermined matches are a friggin joke and that's all this friggin game has to offer at this point.
This isn't a true FPS it's a ******* move game with predetermined ******* battles

that's just a silly assertion

Graugger, on 06 August 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

MM doesn't compare "skill" it looks at how many matches you've won and lost and decides what it needs to do to try and bring

No, no it doesn't, if you're operating under that pretense then you're wrong
Elo is a skill rating that matches (or attempts to) you up against players with similar Elo. The reason you have a "1:1" ratio is because you're playing against players at or near your skill level. That means you win just about as often as you lose usually.

Your assertion that "you have no choice but to lose" is a silly notion


You offer no ways to improve it, you're making inaccurate assertions, and you're just ranting false observations without understanding how the mechanics actually work

How can you expect anyone to take your post seriously when most of your post is based on an interpretation of the MM ystem that's false?

How would YOU fix the MM system?

[Graugger]

Noth, on 06 August 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Also, pretty much all match makers that have ELO involved try and push your w/l towards 1. It is not abnormal, nor is it predetirmining a match.

Self-contradiction

[Noth]

Graugger, on 06 August 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Self-contradiction

Read sandpits post if you can't understand that it is not predetermined.

[Willard Phule]

I understand the OP's complaints and, as much as I hate...HATE...to say it...he's wrong.

Don't misunderstand, before the matchmaker re-write, he would have been 100% correct. But, since it's a thing of the past, we won't open that can of worms back up.

The current matchmaker may or may not be working with the whole "predetermined win/loss" thing, but it's nowhere as stringent as it used to be.

Unfortunately, the current system has it's own set of problems. The way it works now, in a nutshell, is "the better you are, the more new players you're expected to carry."

Before you get your hackles up, Sandpit, I think I figured out one of the miscommunication issues we have. It's the definition of "new player."

Bryan stated that players in their first 25 matches (ie: his definition of "new player") are separated from the general populace and after the first 25, they go into the deep end with the artificially inflated Elo just like they used to. Hence, having to be carried. I disagree with that philosophy...the learning curve of MW:O is far greater than 25 matches, especially since there is no new player content.

Bryan's definition of "new player" is tantamount to someone walking into a martial arts dojo, asking the instructor to kick the hell out of him 25 times, then announcing to the world that he "knows martial arts." Silly, but accurate.

[Graugger]

I never said that my WLR was 1:1...

And saying that I'm playing against players at or near my skill level, ok but as Willard just pointed out new people get thrown into teams so. If you have 4 new players on the other team and 8 to 10 on yours... how is the outcome questionable?

[Willard Phule]

Graugger, on 06 August 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I never said that my WLR was 1:1...

And saying that I'm playing against players at or near my skill level, ok but as Willard just pointed out new people get thrown into teams so. If you have 4 new players on the other team and 8 to 10 on yours... how is the outcome questionable?

Dude...before the re-write, the matchmaker did it's best to keep you at a 1:1. Your Elo only went up or down if you did differently than was predicted for your team. Now, not so much.

If you're good, expect to have to carry a lot of dead weight...just don't call them "new players." After their first 25 matches, they're considered "elite veterans" and are given an Elo score to represent that. Unfortunately for both of us, that score is close to the one we worked for.

[Noth]

Graugger, on 06 August 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I never said that my WLR was 1:1...

And saying that I'm playing against players at or near my skill level, ok but as Willard just pointed out new people get thrown into teams so. If you have 4 new players on the other team and 8 to 10 on yours... how is the outcome questionable?

New players that have a lower ELO are thrown into high ELO games as the matchmaker increases its range of possible ELOs as time passes. This happens in nearly all games. In LoL, I'd often get stuck with new players despite my ELO being much higher than there's and thus get stomped. Same in Smite. Matchmakers that use ELO don't eliminate stomps (particularly in games that require teamwork).

Edited by Noth, 06 August 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Graugger]

One plausible solution is to implement different population ratios for matches. 4v4, 8v8, 12v12.

A level display system would help so teammates in game could see which players are less experienced in game and use the lance / company command options to better effect by knowing just who you're telling to do what.

[Mister Blastman]

I admit I tried pugging for a few drops the other night and saw some of the worst players I have ever seen the entire time I have been playing this game on my teams.

I swear in a few of those drops (a few of the few heh) my teammates proceeded to spread out around the map forming a perfect Starfish shape amongst the various corners and positions... in "Assault" and "Skirmish" modes. Yeah. They didn't play out that well.

I left playing the game that evening with a sick, disgusted feeling inside.

[Lefty Lucy]

The MM actually works way better than it ever has before. If you think "predetermined matches" are a thing, you simply don't understand how statistics works.

When you have matches like this with gross imbalances it's basically due to two factors:

1. Not all mechs in a weight class are made the same. Every time a Heavy player chooses a Dragon, the other team might get a Timberwolf, and that's a huge mismatch.

2. Low server populations. The match maker has to work with what's available.

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 06 August 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

I admit I tried pugging for a few drops the other night and saw some of the worst players I have ever seen the entire time I have been playing this game on my teams.

I swear in a few of those drops (a few of the few heh) my teammates proceeded to spread out around the map forming a perfect Starfish shape amongst the various corners and positions... in "Assault" and "Skirmish" modes. Yeah. They didn't play out that well.

I left playing the game that evening with a sick, disgusted feeling inside.

Sounds like the PUG life.

Where it's a miracle if everyone manages 100 damage.

[Mister Blastman]

Mcgral18, on 06 August 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Sounds like the PUG life.

Where it's a miracle if everyone manages 100 damage.

Sometimes I feel like pugging resembles playing the game of "Craps" with dice that have magnets secretly placed on one side that the dealer can control by pressing a button secretly under the table.

One throw you're tossing a pair of sixes and the next few you get snake eyes, every time. :-|

Hence it isn't a good idea to pug often.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 06 August 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Sounds like the PUG life.

Where it's a miracle if everyone manages 100 damage.

Gotta herd those sheep. Sometimes to win, you need to make stuff happen... even if the guy in the Lolcust died within the first 30 seconds of the match.

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 06 August 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Sometimes I feel like pugging resembles playing the game of "Craps" with dice that have magnets secretly placed on one side that the dealer can control by pressing a button secretly under the table.

One throw you're tossing a pair of sixes and the next few you get snake eyes, every time. :-|

Hence it isn't a good idea to pug often.

There's Clan vs IS matches going on now. Our team only had 1 sub 100 damage, while the Clans had 2.

It was a nice victory. But it's almost completely dependent on which team has the more sub 1/200 damage players.

[Koniving]

Personally I have good and bad luck with the solo queue. ELO is clearly still functioning there. Win some, lose some.

It's when I get into the group queues that it absolutely sucks. It's like have 4 players minimum or just go home. There is clearly no ELO matchmaking going on with the group queues as you can have everything. A team full of new players with some vets versus an entire team of competitive meta-crazed jerkwads where every single build is 2 PPCs + AC/5 or 2 ER PPCs + Gauss and every mech is either jumpjet capable, ECM capable, or both.

The group queue absolutely blows, especially for teams below 4 players.

[Noth]

Koniving, on 06 August 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Personally I have good and bad luck with the solo queue. ELO is clearly still functioning there. Win some, lose some.

It's when I get into the group queues that it absolutely sucks. It's like have 4 players minimum or just go home. There is clearly no ELO matchmaking going on with the group queues as you can have everything. A team full of new players with some vets versus an entire team of competitive meta-crazed jerkwads where every single build is 2 PPCs + AC/5 or 2 ER PPCs + Gauss and every mech is either jumpjet capable, ECM capable, or both.

The group queue absolutely blows, especially for teams below 4 players.

It is still working there, but due to trying to match groups, it will have a larger range of possible ELOs to be thrown in. Basically, it is easier to match a bunch of solo people together than groups. Also chances are there are more solo players than group players.