35 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

you have perfectly captured the innersphere's weak side, and the rightful power of clan mechs. now start giving them innersphere omnimechs to compensate instead of nerfing clans to the ground.

We don't need Omnimechs. Omnimechs by themselves are inferior to Battlemechs as far as this game is concerned. Trying to cram heavier IS gear into omnipods with limited space and a fixed engine is not an advantage.

What we need is ER tech for the other laser sizes.

What is ultimately sad is that if the second-line Clan 'Mechs ever show up (HBK-IIC, LCT-IIC, etc.), they will be far superior to the Omnimechs in this game assuming PGI doesn't do something weird with their hardpoints and critslots to prevent it. Why? Because they are regular Battlemechs with access to Clan-tech.

If a fast, tiny Locust with access to six C-ERML(42 alpha) isn't scary, then nothing is scary.

[Chagatay]

FupDup, on 06 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

While I do remember seeing some refit rules in Strategic Operations about that, the vast majority of Omnis for both factions were rarely built with mixed tech (although there are some outliers), and PGI seem like the folks who wouldn't let that mixing happen.

Be that as it may, the hardwired "core" components would still be of Inner Sphere design: XL, Endo, and FF (and external DHS, to a lesser extent) would be the bigger, weaker IS versions rather than the better versions that Clan Omnis get. Give them Clan guns and they'd still be a fairly poor choice, although a select few might be salvageable.

In the end though, the standard Clan mechs would indeed be terrifying unless smashed furiously with the nerfhammer.

It would be cool though just think if we had CW 10 v 12 and all that jazz. Early in a given campaign (world conquest as it were) you may have some additional strategies:

- I am IS and I really like those shiny gauss rifles/PPCs/er med lasers. Maybe I want to leg as many clan mechs as possible in addition to the normal objectives just so I get to use their weapons later in the campaign. Having a bunch of IS upgraded omnis with clan tech on our dropship for later use might spell doom for our clanner friends.

- I am a Clanner. Boy I wish I could get my hands on those pinpoint IS ACs/LRMs....etc etc

[Noth]

Chagatay, on 06 August 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

It would be cool though just think if we had CW 10 v 12 and all that jazz. Early in a given campaign (world conquest as it were) you may have some additional strategies:

- I am IS and I really like those shiny gauss rifles/PPCs/er med lasers. Maybe I want to leg as many clan mechs as possible in addition to the normal objectives just so I get to use their weapons later in the campaign. Having a bunch of IS upgraded omnis with clan tech on our dropship for later use might spell doom for our clanner friends.

- I am a Clanner. Boy I wish I could get my hands on those pinpoint IS ACs/LRMs....etc etc

They have already said no mixed tech. It opens up so many balance issues.

[Mycrus]

Just drop all is mech groups vs clan pugs... fits nicely with the lawr.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Remember, Clan pilots will say anything to prevent a possible round of nerfing to their weapons and chassis.

Clearly ALL IS pilots are lousy (including my IS self by association). Typical True Birth ego and vanity.

Brace yourselves test tube babies, rebalancing is coming.

BTW, look at the bright side, some Clan Buffs might happen too...maybe

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 07 August 2014 - 03:58 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

All I see is that bad clan players win against good is players.

I keep seeing bad IS players getting schooled by the higher-ELO Clan ones. There's only one side for new players to get dropped on. Funny how that's the side that gets the gross majority of stomps in IS vs Clan setups right now...

[Xarian]

I don't think that Clan mechs need to be nerfed; they are on par with the top tier of IS mechs, except that one of them needs buffs (Summoner). A lot of IS mechs need buffs, which is part of why people complain so much.

"What do you mean that my Awesome isn't as good as as Timberwolf? That's BS!" etc. If you compare the best IS mechs, however (Atlas, Jagermech, Firestarter, Spider, Shadowhawk, etc), there really isn't a huge balance discrepancy in terms of firepower, mobility, hitboxes, etc. If you compare the worst IS mechs (Locust, Awesome, Kintaro, Dragon, etc) then there's a huge difference - these mechs either have little to no firepower (Locust), suffer from an extreme case of medium mech syndrome* (Kintaro), or have such awful hitboxes that they get cored rapidly (Awesome, Dragon).

*Medium mech syndrome - when your mech has the same size and mobility as a typical Heavy-class mech, but not the armor or firepower.

[Angel of Annihilation]

BaronBastardKiller, on 06 August 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

reading through this thread I've come to the conclusion:

"this is why you people can't have nice things"


seriously though.. the pilot (the human factor) will always make the difference. I have had a bunch of bad matches of late... and ya I could come on here and post about how OP clan mechs are but the bottom line is this:

- I was tired afew times and not concentrating or aiming my shots. guy infront was. he won, I lost
- Was tired of pugs leaving me behind so I just did my own thing. Got owned pretty quickly each time
- The few times I was fresh and playing properly, I owned anything in sight with my Atlas D or DDC... Team mates playing well helped.. but One match in particular... Frozen city... my D variant VS 3 mechs... 2 of which were clan... Now they'd taken some damage granted... but the 3 of them couldn't down me, I was twisting, and more importantly MOVING and not standing still and circling buildings. my dual LBX critted the Catapult infront of me... I then got the summoner with SRMS and Medium lasers, and the last Kit Fox I took out his leg and finished him off with SRMS.... 3 VS 1 and I owned their asses....

Now.. if even 1 of those guys was a good player, that would not have gone down like that, and I would have atleast lost a torso...or an arm.. and if it was 2 good players and they tactically flanked me and doused me with fire? Would have chewed me up before I could kill any of them.

I've seen a guy in a spider Kill 5 mechs in a match, each was 100% health, the dude was insane and played so well. I can't get even 1 kill in a spider in a match most times....

Everyone relax, focus, and enjoy the ride.

All your bacon is belonging to us!

100% this

[Elizander]

Let's put out those Clan Trial mechs on the next test and let's see how the groups mix up.

Edited by Elizander, 07 August 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Chagatay]

Noth, on 06 August 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

They have already said no mixed tech. It opens up so many balance issues.

No mixed tech currently....IS omni* being compatible to Clan omni doesn't seem to me imbalanced at all given all the downsides to IS omnis. IS omnis better get something good or they will be no point to take them. Also keep in mind this is ONLY for CW during campaigns (you need to salvage the clan tech off of dead clanners), you can't cross tech in normal drops.


* IS omni will be introduced at some point. Note that battlemech and omni equipment will ALWAYS be incompatable.

Edited by Chagatay, 07 August 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

you have perfectly captured the innersphere's weak side, and the rightful power of clan mechs. now start giving them innersphere omnimechs to compensate instead of nerfing clans to the ground.

You are wrong. This was a case of noobs vs experience.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 07 August 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

FupDup, on 06 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Inner Sphere Omnimechs would be the worst type of mech possible. They get the inherent weakness of being unable to customize their "core" parts, while simultaneously not being able to use Clan weaponry to compensate for it. They get the worst of both worlds, essentially.

You forgot the worst part about 'em: XL engines.

No you didin't, should have switched to page 2 before posting.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 07 August 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[Lightfoot]

You bring up a good point. Soon Inner Sphere will have Light Gauss Rifles (which better not be de-synced due to the low damage), ER Medium Lasers, Arrow IV missile, more advanced mechs. You wouldn't want all that to be lost to excessive nerfing.

That's why I tried to get everyone to be patient with the original Gauss Rifle and PPCs since I knew from past experience that these were the Inner Sphere's best weapons vs the Clans, but no, they were heavily nerfed with the Gauss de-sync and Heat Scale. The mechs should have just been made tougher and given a hard heat cap that destroys the mech if crossed. I mean if an mech's arm stub can be granted 4x center torso shielding and no one complained, they could make the mech's center torsos a little tougher due to too much pin-point as well. If they had the Inner Sphere would not be so gimped.

[AlmightyAeng]

Damien Tokala, on 06 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

not every mech can be a brawler, and not ever mech can be a striker.

Every Timberwolf can...which is why my $55 mock me every time I look at it and choose, again, to wait for the C-Bill variants.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 August 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Mystere]

Viges, on 06 August 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

I see it in the data! Got it?

Data? What data? Did PGI release the full Monty?

[Siej]

Seems to me, most Clan players are people who have been playing awhile and invested the money in a game they love. Sure, there are some people who just have the money and don't care, I'm sure, but I think the majority are players who are pretty into the game. That's a lot of cash to be throwing around for something you're only "meh" about.

Sure, the tech is a bit better and there are some limitations, and straight on the clan mechs overall have an advantage. However, isn't that the point? The bones of contention, in my mind, is that Clan are supposed to have smaller ammo bins, not the same ones we spray and pray IS guys are supposed to have (from their perspective). So, lore-wise, let's get it all up to snuff like its supposed to be, including the few weaknesses, and then things will settle. The hodge-podge fixes currently on the IS side, and Ghost Heat silliness hitting everyone, should probably be fixed. Between that and the 3 lances versus 2 stars thing, it should get interesting moving forward.

Is it currently a bit frustrating for a lot of players? Sure. Growing pains. Once Clan tech goes cbills, we'll see how things pan out more, and hopefully community warfare will be something fun. Clan tech is supposed to be better, that's the point, but also more rigid in some ways. Did clans even have theshared targetting in Battletech? No. But we had to pay tonnage for it in IS. So... maybe that's something that should be implemented some day. *shrug*

It's a game, and these days, everything is always a constant work in progress. If you love this franchise, stick it out and be pleasantly vocal, and it should all win out in the end. Vote with your money, as they say.