188 replies to this topic

[Sug]

pcunite, on 07 August 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

I hope they make an offline version of the game (single player) so that I can have something to play when they run this ONLINE version into the ground.

We'll just flip the MWLL switch back to On and play that again.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 07 August 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

I agree, but this game is also premised around conquering entire planets. maps are badly needed. They aren't a "make or break" in my opinion, but they are extremely important.

This also goes beyond "just" maps. If this is how their entire company and design process runs for every aspect of the game, well I can understand why in 3 years we have
10 maps
2 game modes
and 0 campaign

and if Niko's statements regarding "mc impact" are true, then I can also understand why we have 100 mechs

Something has to change if PGI wants to expand and become more successful. They've got a chance to be a AAA game developer. They're fumbling thus far and proving that they weren't ready to be the lead on a big project at this point. They've really got to take a long hard look at their processes and figure out why everything is so slow and tedious.

Wait so you say they are vital, but not make or break... vital to me implies they are make or break.

Also what Niko says about mc impact is pretty true in the f2p market. Why do you think that LoL makes virtually no new maps (there newest actually not being new, but simply the tutorial map and they definiately have the man power and money to easily make new maps) and focuses on sales and champion creation? Or how WoT has more focus on new tanks than maps (yes they do have more maps than here, but they have always focused more on tanks than maps). So yes, it is true. This game does need more maps and they will come, however the nature of what appears to be, understaffing on PGIs part and being f2p means that other things will almost always have a higher priority.

Edited by Noth, 07 August 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Axeface]

"What gives in the map making department"

In ALL HONESTY, it has to be incompetance. I could do better. I really could, I'm usually quite forgiving when it comes to graphics but mechwarrior online is really amateur (except the mechs, they are nice models).
And I have always noticed how LL achieved so much more than this game.

Also, where are the dropships? Where are the mechbays? I dunno, but all the mechs could actually start in mechbays. Would make more sense than random spots on a map.
The 'mechbay' interface could have guys walking around at the bottom - set dressing - everything in this game is halfassed - even the important things (gameplay).

It also annoys me that the artists seem to have forgotten that we are piloting 10-20 meter tall robots. The textures seem to have been designed on a 'human level'. The only game that I remember doing this better was MW3. Mw4 was just as bad as mwo.

There are bushes in this game that are like 15 meters tall.

Edited by Axeface, 07 August 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Sug]

Totally off topic but that old PA article linked me to a post from 2012 I though was interesting then and now.

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/68470-heat-and-why-dhs-isnt-the-problem-or-the-solution/

So much writing.

Edited by Sug, 07 August 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Aresye]

Kyle Wright, on 06 August 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

Im sitting here as someone who never played MW: LL and am shocked. Ive dumped maybe 3-400 into this game and im watching these guys videos wanting to play their game. Sure the mechs cant be customized and its a die then re-spawn world, but the maps ive seen alone I am blown away. They make you feel like you could go anywhere in the universe. And lets face it unless you are in the infantry and are clearing a urban environment the modern battlefield is not a small place.

Have you seen any of the Urban Jungle vids?

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 07 August 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Wait so you say they are vital, but not make or break... also what Niko says about mc impact is pretty true in the f2p market. Why do you think that LoL makes virtually no new maps (there newest actually not being new, but simply the tutorial map) and focuses on sales and champion creation? Or how WoT has more focus on new tanks than maps (yes they do have more maps than here). So yes, it is true. This game does need more maps and they will come, however the nature of what appears to be, understaffing on PGIs part and being f2p means that other things will almost always have a higher priority.

There's a big difference between vital and make or break.

If no new maps were ever put out would this game fail simply because of that?
doubtful

If no new maps were ever put out would this game grown and expand?
doubtful

that's the difference between vital and make or break.

LoL also is a deathmatch game with no campaign. Huge difference. LoL has, from day one, been a standalone deathmatch style game. MWO, has not been billed as that. Two completely different styles of game, gaming experience, and gamer there.

WoT can focus more on tanks now BECAUSE they have enough maps to satisfy their player base for a while. If MWO had 20-30 maps, you wouldn't see the complaints you do now.

PGI's understaffing is NOT an excuse. They've had 3 years and millions of dollars to staff their company. If they chose to mismanage their funds that is NOT a valid reason for slow production. If anything that's the perfect reason not to ever hand a single dime over to PGI again as they are just mismanaging their revenue.

100 mechs
10 maps

I think they've done a great job at producing monetized items. Nobody is saying they shouldn't put those items out as well. Heck, I'm not even saying that shouldn't be one of their main focuses. I'm saying a $250,000 price tag and 4 month development cycle is ludicrous.

This is further exacerbated by the fact that a lot of the community members here know factually that they could do it for far less money, in far less time, and without problems like invisible walls, 2 foot rocks that stop your 100 ton death machine cold, and poor spawn points that put you directly under enemy fire upon launching into the match.

Even if I agreed with you that maps are unimportant, that still does not excuse a company squandering 4 months and $250,000 on a single map. That's the real issue here. If PGI is "poor and small" then they have nobody to blame but themselves if this is what their development process is like.

[Axeface]

Sandpit pretty much nailed the issue, especially the last few paragraphs.
Obviously they are not investing the money they are making properly, perhaps through incompetance, or perhaps because they simply dont want to (ferrari's).

I'm actually gonna go play LL now...... (If i can?)

Edited by Axeface, 07 August 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Kyle Wright]

Aresye, on 07 August 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

Have you seen any of the Urban Jungle vids?

I have not... wow i feel like this is Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade and I failed at finding the cup of Christ and turned into that skeleton dude lol

Edited by Kyle Wright, 07 August 2014 - 04:37 PM.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 07 August 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

There's a big difference between vital and make or break.

If no new maps were ever put out would this game fail simply because of that?
doubtful

If no new maps were ever put out would this game grown and expand?
doubtful

that's the difference between vital and make or break.

LoL also is a deathmatch game with no campaign. Huge difference. LoL has, from day one, been a standalone deathmatch style game. MWO, has not been billed as that. Two completely different styles of game, gaming experience, and gamer there.

WoT can focus more on tanks now BECAUSE they have enough maps to satisfy their player base for a while. If MWO had 20-30 maps, you wouldn't see the complaints you do now.

Hate to break it to you, but this game is simply a death match game. Even after CW is added, it is still simply going to be a death match game. Having a meta game doesn't fundamentally change what the game is

Wot has always focused more on new tanks than maps, even when they had few maps. The main reason they have more maps is a bigger team and longer time on the market.

Also this will get more maps, they aren't just going to stop and never make a new map. They will however focus on things that generate money, just like all f2p games. Expecting them not to do such is quite frankly, ignoring the nature of the business. They may have their priorities too far skewed in one direction, but being upset that they are doing exactly what other f2p games are doing is not right either.

Edited by Noth, 07 August 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Primetimex]

New maps?? pah, even on the canyon map yesterday I saw 2 teammates stuck on each other trying to climb up the Canyon walls - if this is not incompetence I don't know what is? Very limited number of maps we have yet many are still suffering from dodgy problems and another one was a Spider stuck on top of HPG wall then self-destructed due to invisible wall/chasm??!!

[dqIII]

And this is their community manager...pathetic PGI, purely pathetic. not another cent until you reverse your idiotic logic. you guys really are scum.

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 07 August 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you, but this game is simply a death match game. Even after CW is added, it is still simply going to be a death match game. Having a meta game doesn't fundamentally change what the game is

Uhm, no, no it's not and that's not what it was EVER advertised as. CW implements a persistent campaign with ramifications for a loss. Right now there's no consequences to a loss. You still earn money and exp. You don't lose anything. CW changes that.
Since you want go be "fundamental", I hate to break it to you, but EVERY game is a deathmatch then. Every single game boils down to accomplishing a task. That's it. It's not a matter of that task, it's a matter of how you get to accomplish it.

Noth, on 07 August 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Expecting them not to do such is quite frankly, ignoring the nature of the business. They may have their priorities too far skewed in one direction, but being upset that they are doing exactly what other f2p games are doing is not right either.

this is where people tend to get frustrated...

Sandpit, on 07 August 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I think they've done a great job at producing monetized items. Nobody is saying they shouldn't put those items out as well. Heck, I'm not even saying that shouldn't be one of their main focuses. I'm saying a $250,000 price tag and 4 month development cycle is ludicrous.

it's like you completely ignored that part of the post


Even still, take a look through this thread. Take a look at how many agree with you. That's a clear indication that most of the customers don't agree. So even if you feel you're "right", the majority don't. Since profits are important and a revenue stream is a primary focus, do you think it's really wise to not revamp their process and please a bigger portion of the customer base?

[Axeface]

Noth, on 07 August 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Hate to break it to you, but this game is simply a death match game. Even after CW is added, it is still simply going to be a death match game. Having a meta game doesn't fundamentally change what the game is.

Still on-form today I see Noth.

I quote:-

Quote

Set in the year 3049 during the early stages of a massive interstellar war, MechWarrior Online puts you in command of the most powerful war machine to ever walk the field of battle, the mighty BattleMech. Command your Mech and customize it to suit your battlefield role; upgrade systems, replace weapons, and tweak armor with endless options.

MechWarrior Online lets players command at will: go head-to-head online alone or with friends in high-octane Conquest and VS modes. Band together and form your own Mercenary Corp, invite friends and battle other player-made Merc Corps for prestige and power. Pledge your allegiance to one of the five great houses and fight for control of precious Inner Sphere planets.

You will play a key role in a dynamic and ever-changing universe where player exploits impact the world around you and daily story updates and frequent content additions create epic changes to the Inner Sphere universe and its many inhabitants.

MechWarrior Online delivers a rich online experience, rewarding everything a player does with experience points, C-Bills, unlocks, and recognition. Upgrade skills and refine your role in gameplay using an all-new leveling system, and up-to-the minute detailed player statistics allow you to compare, track and share your progress with other players:

Mech Warfare – The embodiment of Mech to Mech combat.

Role Warfare – The ability for player’s to customize their experience to suit their own style of gameplay.

Community Warfare – The ability to let the players take part in epic combat for territorial control.

Information Warfare – Bring a new element to the battlefield that incorporates information technology to help control the fight.

Edited by Axeface, 07 August 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[spectralthundr]

Kiri117, on 07 August 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

Keep in mind, this game killed MechWarrior: Living Legends. It's been what, two years since then and MWO still isn't half the game Living Legends was. But they had the gall to say, and I quote from Ross Bullock: http://www.rockpaper...is-less-living/ "We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn’t competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand."

Implying that somehow these MWLL guys were trying to catch up to MWO and the efforts were all but wasted. **** you MWO. I want Legends back, where I spawned in power armor and walked through my command post down to the hangar to hop into a tank, an aerospace fighter, a mech or even just pick up a bigger gun and some explosives and walk out in that same power armor and join the battle.

There's nothing more immersive than ordering which Atlas model you want, being pointed to which hangar is yours, then physically standing beside the giant hulking titan that is your mech before jump-jetting up to its cockpit, hopping in, making sure you have ammo loaded and beginning to lumber out the hangar doors to join a battle in progress on a huge map.

To be fair MW:LL killed MW:LL in the fact that no one really knew about it, and those who did, most didn't even bother with it. That doesn't excuse the lack of maps or resources put into said maps on PGI's part. I both commend Niko for a totally brutally honest response but it's also going to bite them in the tail because the trolls now have more fodder to cry with.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 07 August 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Uhm, no, no it's not and that's not what it was EVER advertised as. CW implements a persistent campaign with ramifications for a loss. Right now there's no consequences to a loss. You still earn money and exp. You don't lose anything. CW changes that.
Since you want go be "fundamental", I hate to break it to you, but EVERY game is a deathmatch then. Every single game boils down to accomplishing a task. That's it. It's not a matter of that task, it's a matter of how you get to accomplish it.



this is where people tend to get frustrated...

it's like you completely ignored that part of the post


Even still, take a look through this thread. Take a look at how many agree with you. That's a clear indication that most of the customers don't agree. So even if you feel you're "right", the majority don't. Since profits are important and a revenue stream is a primary focus, do you think it's really wise to not revamp their process and please a bigger portion of the customer base?

Sandpit (you too axeface). Look at what the game is now. We drop in and kill other mechs/capture a point. The CW will not change that. The CW will basically be what the Clan Wars are in WoT and that doesn't change the fact that it is still a deathmatch game. CW here will be ignored by the majority of players or simply play second fiddle to the actual game. It is not going to change the game like people want. The advertising also doesn't change what the game actually is.

I have also actually agree we need more maps. People acting like it is a wrong bad, mistake to focus on monetizing aspect like all f2p games is what I don't agree with. Maps will come, they should come faster, and there are 2 maps in the pipeline. Yet it is still "Waah! they aren't here now!"

It's like people say they want more maps and PGI says, ok, we are working on two more (even with an approximate date for one of them), but people still claim they don't work on maps at all. They move to improving something and the people instead of going good, and being at least somewhat happy about it, simply cry more, because it is not immediate.

Edited by Noth, 07 August 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Axeface]

Quote

...they had the gall to say, and I quote from Ross Bullock: http://www.rockpaper...is-less-living/ "We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn’t competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand."

Umm. Is that legit?
My utter contempt for this company is growing by the minute. Utterly disgusting.

Edited by Axeface, 07 August 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

MadPanda, on 07 August 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Wow, did he seriously just say that they aren't making maps because it doesn't help them sell more MC packs? Wow...

No, he didn't. He said "indirect impact on MC sales"

He admits they indirectly impact MC sales. They are not a direct impact because you don't buy maps for MC. Derp.
You might buy things with MC that utilize maps, but those are direct sales, and maps indirectly impact them.

[IraqiWalker]

Axeface, on 07 August 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Umm. Is that legit?
My utter contempt for this company is growing by the minute. Utterly disgusting.

Kiri117, on 07 August 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

Keep in mind, this game killed MechWarrior: Living Legends. It's been what, two years since then and MWO still isn't half the game Living Legends was. But they had the gall to say, and I quote from Ross Bullock: http://www.rockpaper...is-less-living/ "We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn’t competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand."

Implying that somehow these MWLL guys were trying to catch up to MWO and the efforts were all but wasted. **** you MWO. I want Legends back, where I spawned in power armor and walked through my command post down to the hangar to hop into a tank, an aerospace fighter, a mech or even just pick up a bigger gun and some explosives and walk out in that same power armor and join the battle.

There's nothing more immersive than ordering which Atlas model you want, being pointed to which hangar is yours, then physically standing beside the giant hulking titan that is your mech before jump-jetting up to its cockpit, hopping in, making sure you have ammo loaded and beginning to lumber out the hangar doors to join a battle in progress on a huge map.

These guys didn't kill MW:LL, especially when plenty of the devs for MW:LL came out and said so themselves, not to mention that a bunch of the MW:LL team are working for PGI now.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 07 August 2014 - 05:01 PM.

[Aresye]

What I don't understand (like many others) is the whole, "It takes an absurd amount of time and upwards of $250,000 to make a map."

I think a 12y/o script kiddy on 4chan can over-exaggerate about how complicated DDoS is better than PGI can explain how complicated map making is.

That's why Cry Engine has it's own tools to create maps. It's there for a reason! It's why completely free mods for games can have DOZENS of amazing maps designed by an extremely small group of people for NO COST. If it cost modders $250,000, or even $250,000 in overall "work time," then no mods would exist. Only companies would have the monetary support and manpower to create maps, and we all know that isn't the case.

I believe that lie just as much as I believe the whole, "We didn't send a C&D against MWLL." Like a group of modders who worked hard for 4-5 years and had exceptional communication to the community just decided, "Nope, we're done," on a single night, abandoning the project that was ~ 80% complete and halting all production then and there.

[Axeface]

Aresye, on 07 August 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

That's why Cry Engine has it's own tools to create maps. It's there for a reason! It's why completely free mods for games can have DOZENS of amazing maps designed by an extremely small group of people for NO COST. If it cost modders $250,000, or even $250,000 in overall "work time," then no mods would exist. Only companies would have the monetary support and manpower to create maps, and we all know that isn't the case.

It's complete bull. You can license cryengine now for 10 dollars a month. And... if you are paying a MAPPER 250 grand a year, holy cow they better be AMAZING. It's all bull.