950 replies to this topic

[Wispsy]

Diablobo, on 08 August 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

We already have had a rough time keeping friendly fire accidents down because of the increased duration of the Clan lasers and PGI wants to make things worse?

Oh really? This was my favourite part!!

As far as "only decent weapon"...what? Clans weapons are flat out better...if it is the only really decent weapon out of the most op weapons...does that not suggest maybe it needs a change? Now I am not saying all 4 were completely necessary, 3 probably would have done it imo...

All in all I do think the ppc was too strong, being the cornerstone in every "viable" build outside of lights and the clan large laser was very strong with the ppc as the only real answer...so if you are reducing the effectiveness of the counter then needing to give people time to actually close distance to mid range is needed so I can see why it was done.

I do think lowering the cooldown to 6 seconds cuts the dps too much considering how small most of the maps are...so an inability to keep range or actually kill anything before it face charges you.

[AncillaLupus]

So i´ll pack med pulses instead (2T saving per weapon) and pack bigger balistics and bigger LRMs instead.
Lovely.

Funny question... many clan mechs have several ER LL build in.
Shooting dual ppc on Terra Therma nearly shut you down anyways, so this will now also happen with ER LL..
Will PGI change stock configs than, too?

Ways over the top nerft ... sorry.
That´s NOT the solution of clan mechs beeing better than IS mechs. Absolutly not.

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

instead of doing all this Bs to the weapon Systems....

Get your fingers out and work out WTF is happening with all this Rubber-banding in matches.

The idea of swinging Nerf bats to balance out OP weapon systems etc is so stupid, you can never balance player skill/awareness, which goes back to a point made earlier....This game requires teams to GROUP UP and ROLL, if that's in a lance, or higher the team that Focus fires and Pushes the opponent will win (that's the tactic even comp teams seem to use, red smoke included)

We need divergence of assets in tis game Lance A secure WATCHTOWER, hold for 30 SEC- 15 vps......hold for 1 min 30 vps.

Lance two and Three you have objective Brave and Charlie, secure the supply truck, Provide screen for team Alpha.

This is how MechWarrior online should be.

The Nerf bat has been Swung, has it changed my Mech builds, not really as I am proficient in their use. However New players will continue to struggle as the Learning curve on this game is to steep/ non-rewarding for many people.

Heck if you survive 5 matches as a Newbie you should get given a MECH from PGI, with a few parts to tinker with so you can get hooked not told use TRIAL mechs till you GRIND one.

[Greydron]

I can't stand this ridiculous stupidity anymore.

Good Luck to those who remain.

[Black Templar]

I am eager to give the changes a try before I render judgement. Thanks for the heads up Paul.

[Celthora]

Now you can fire 2x Gauss rifles but cant fire 2x erlarges. This shows how stupid is the balance. There is no plea of it.

[Khobai]

Quote

Now you can fire 2x Gauss rifles but cant fire 2x erlarges. This shows how stupid is the balance. There is no plea of it.

CERLL does need a nerf. But why not just lower the damage and the range? Why all the ghost heat nonsense?

All PGI has to do is lower the damage from 11.25 to 10 and lower the optimum range from 890m to 750m, because the insane range of the CERLL is a big part of the problem. The heat increase from 8.5 to 9 is probably okay too.

The beam duration and ghost heat nerfs are completely unnecessary though. They just make the weapon useless.

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2014 - 12:43 AM.

[QuantumPeep]

It's funny how PGI always tries to sell us their trash:

1. Feedback with those mysterious competitive players, (BS way of telling us they are listening to the community)

2. Oh, xyz is not working as intended, ( for years now, btw)", "...we always intended xyz to work differently.blablabla. Well, so somehow you programmed a game, which you intended to be 'this' way, but magically it turned out to be 'that' way???
E.g.: Modules, ghost heat, PPC, Gauss, Ghost heat just about everything else.

So here's the kicker: This game keeps changing in so many different and drastic ways, and often enough purchasable items, (real cash involved, (hero mechs, clan mechs), are involved, that if this game was some other product, PGI would be in court most of the year: Imagine, if you will, this was a car you bought, and the company forces you to bring it in once a months, so they can reduce the engine performance, change the paint job, put in different, uncomfortable seats, exchange the steering wheel for 2 buttons, so you know, driving becomes more "fun and "exciting", because you know, there's expert drivers out there, that told us this is the best thing to do and btw, we never intended the car to be the way it currently is. We like, you know, designed and build it the way you bought it, but really, no really, it turned out completely different then intended.

[Wintersdark]

Ghost heat limit of 1 is the only cERLL change I really, strongly object to.

A 2 second burn is freakishly long to start with. With a limit of one cERLL, Mount a pair and you'll be generating 30 heat during both, the same as a pair of ERPPC's. Yes, I get lasers generate their heat over time, but its still 30 heat that needs to be sunk. Leave them hotter; hell, push them to 10 heat.

But a limit of 1? Look how many clan stock builds feature a pair of cERLL's. This really nerfs all of them.

And no, you can't chain fire 2s beam lasers, its just not workable. Nobody is going to give you 4s to burn them.

2s burn + max 1 _together_ ruin this weapon completely.

I remember abtime when ghost heat was designed to stop 30+ alphas =/

[LordKnightFandragon]

Sandpit, on 07 August 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

*looks at all the clan tags*
glad I waited...

anyhow, Paul, you've completely ignored the fact that you just nerfed the H*LL out of those that DON'T boat the weapon. You did this while simultaneously nerfing stock clan build by "boating" TWO lasers???? really??? bravo sir. well played

Yeah, really...didnt know LL were really that OP. And 2 is boating? Since when? lol. Warhawks boat them with 4..if thats boating. But the Warhawk just lost alot of effectiveness with this nerf. Both its Prime variant and when one decides to drop the PPC for a LL Config, like I did on my B Variant.

[Celthora]

Khobai, on 08 August 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

CERLL does need a nerf. But why not just lower the damage and the range? Why all the ghost heat nonsense?

yeah, decreasing even damage and range, increasing heat would be enough...

Edited by Celthora, 08 August 2014 - 12:43 AM.

[Reno Blade]

AncillaLupus, on 08 August 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

So i´ll pack med pulses instead (2T saving per weapon) and pack bigger balistics and bigger LRMs instead.
Lovely.

Funny question... many clan mechs have several ER LL build in.
Shooting dual ppc on Terra Therma nearly shut you down anyways, so this will now also happen with ER LL..
Will PGI change stock configs than, too?

Ways over the top nerft ... sorry.
That´s NOT the solution of clan mechs beeing better than IS mechs. Absolutly not.

Who said you can't change your mechs loadout?
Who said you can't shoot your weapons without the penalty.
I say, shoot the ERLL in chain and keep groupfire for a group of cERML or Pulse lasers, or only use the ERLL in pairs if you have nough time to cool off, like you need with 2ERPPCs.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

Сlans: 5 CER-ML = 35 dmg (max 8,14 dps, no ghost heat) at 450 m (max 900 m) = 5t
IS: 4 LL = 36 dmg (max 8,47 dps, ghost heat at 3+) at 450 m (max 900 m) = 20t

You already see the afterpatch future.

Edited by Krigg, 08 August 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[Hardac]

C-ERLL nerf is going too far. Also, I feel like the PPC speed nerf is going to affect a lot of mechs who survive at long range by sniping with PPC's because getting close means dying quickly. Not every mech can field ballistics and the ones who can't now have to engage at distance's that become uncomfortable if your opponent is faster than you. C-ERLL's do need a nerf but I feel this is overboard. 2 C-ERLL's will now create as much heat as two ERPPC's AND you have to hold the lasers on one spot for 2 seconds. Holy crap. PGI, you guys do get that these weapons you're nerfing are used by mechs other than the Direwolf and Timberwolf, right? You do understand that these blanket nerfs are causing more problems than they are solving, right?

[Noth]

Khobai, on 08 August 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

CERLL does need a nerf. But why not just lower the damage and the range? Why all the ghost heat nonsense?

All PGI has to do is lower the damage from 11.25 to 10 and lower the optimum range from 890m to 750m, because the insane range of the CERLL is a big part of the problem. The heat increase from 8.5 to 9 is probably okay too.

The beam duration and ghost heat nerfs are completely unnecessary though. They just make the weapon useless.

That makes too much sense for PGI.

[FlipOver]

I understand the need for balance.
Also understand how hard it is to balance a game.

Have you (PGI) ever thought that nerfing isn't the only way to get the balance?

Don't get me wrong, some things may really need a nerf, but nerfing should be a last resort option and for what I see there is the "cone-of-fire" and "weapon convergence" situations that could / should be studied.

Anyway, will be seeing how this affects the gaming experience from the IS pilot pov.

Again, thank you for letting us know what you plan to do and asking for feedback.

[Reno Blade]

Wintersdark, on 08 August 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

Ghost heat limit of 1 is the only cERLL change I really, strongly object to.

A 2 second burn is freakishly long to start with. With a limit of one cERLL, Mount a pair and you'll be generating 30 heat during both, the same as a pair of ERPPC's. Yes, I get lasers generate their heat over time, but its still 30 heat that needs to be sunk. Leave them hotter; hell, push them to 10 heat.

But a limit of 1? Look how many clan stock builds feature a pair of cERLL's. This really nerfs all of them.

And no, you can't chain fire 2s beam lasers, its just not workable. Nobody is going to give you 4s to burn them.

2s burn + max 1 _together_ ruin this weapon completely.

I remember abtime when ghost heat was designed to stop 30+ alphas =/

If we look at the numbers:

Reno Blade, on 07 August 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

...
The ERLL 2sec beam sounds more than it actually is and gives time to shoot back.
Even if your target is at 1000m sitting at a hill and shooting you with ERLL, you might have a chance to snipe with a Gauss and hit him before he ducks back or the beam is over.
Just barely.

The heat increase to 9 heat sounds not much, fair enough.

The Ghost heat at >1 sounds high but thats not much either.
Where you got nearly 5 extra heat on the 3rd laser before, you will now get around 2 extra heat at the second and then around 7 on the 3rd. (exact numbers later).
The modifier will push the heat the highest.

EDIT: Numbers
the change from 8.5 heat to 9.0 heat increases the GH of the 3rd laser from 4.59 to 4.86. thats nothing!
Add the change from >2 to >1 for GH changes:
2nd laser +2.16 heat for a total extra on 3rd laser 7.02 heat. Thats average.

Now to change the mod from 3 to 12
First with 9 heat and limit of >2 it would do 19.44 extra heat on the 3rd laser.
Now with the change to >1 the second laser will do additional 8.64 heat which pushes the 3rd up to additional 28.08 heat.
Nobody will use 3 cERLL together anymore, but 2 will be quite hot also.

1cERLL = 9 heat, 1cERPPC = 15 heat
2cERLL = 26.64 heat, 2cERPPC = 30 heat
3cERLL = 55.09 heat, 3cERPPC = 57.15 heat

Both weapons are very close together with 2 or 3 while one cERLL is nearly half the heat of one cERPPC.
Operation successfull.
Overall the Laser will be higher heat efficient with 1, and slightly less dmg/heat with 2 compared to cERPPC, but still a lot higher dmg/heat than a pair of IS ERPPCs.

then the biggest factor is the modificator increase from 3 to 12, not the >1 limit.
Ofcourse if it were not >1, you would save yourself one ERLL worth of heat (8.64) for 2 and for 3 cERLL.
I guess the factor might get reduced, but the >1 will stay.

[Kazma]

The heat penatly is a bit harsh ... the rest is fine but the heat penatly nerfs every non CERLL boat as well

[Khobai]

The nerfs also fail to address the real problem with the weapon which is its absurd range of 890m which can be increased beyond that with targeting computers.

[Fire and Salt]

What, you guys didn't know that the Timberwolf prime is a er large laser boat?

Yea, its notorious in battletech for being a boat, that lacks a diverse arsenal.

C'mon guys, learn your battletech.