950 replies to this topic

[Stickjock]

More than willing to give these changes a run at least... not having played with the changes in effect it's a little hard to cry "FOUL" for now... LOL

Not that I would anyhow... just means adjusting how you play in the long run IF they stick with the changes... *MEH*... still going to be here for a long time playing either way it goes...

[POWR]

Voodoocz, on 08 August 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Regarding c-ER LL:

Both 2 sec. burn time and brutal GH from 2 pieces? That sounds like overkill... Ok, from now on I'm going to use macros to fire c-ER LL in chain 0,55 sec. apart. Thx. for forcing me to macros PGI :-(.

Please note that I do not protest against heat increase. As far as burn time goes, IMHO 1,75 sec. would be reasonable. But GH from firing just 2, thats ridiculous...

<irony>Give PPC's same GH penalty, everyone will love you</irony>

Great job on figuring out whether or not you need it you deserve a medal

[Starbound]

The CERLL is dead, useless and I'll remove every single one of them from my builds. In no way are they worth it, not even remotely with those new numbers. The Summoner (Prime especially, with its limited hardpoints but the D even more so with its need for multiple CERLLs) is now a complete failure. Kitfox is pretty much ECM defense only, few viable builds now, Stormcrow is going to have to boat MLs and a gauss to remain competitive. I'm going to take a break from the game until this nerf is rolled back.

I totally get the PPC nerf, it was just too powerful with gauss combo, but the CERLL nerf is shameful. I'd play IS still but its just not going to be fun to wreck the clans or get blasted by the inevitable dual gauss combos that are coming. Yeah, break time, this is game breaking and I won't waste my time here anymore.

[I C Wiener]

POWR, on 08 August 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

No, this is what developers of active MMOs and online games do. I don't know what year you just woke up from, but actively tweaking balance and making changes to the way things work is at the focal point of online game development and maintenance.

Thanks, apparently not all players are bitter old men who seem to never have played an online game for the last 10 years...

I second the ERLL nerf, the thing was the best weapon on the field, not the worst reason to nerf something IMO.

[Noth]

I C Wiener, on 08 August 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Thanks, apparently not all players are bitter old men who seem to never have played an online game for the last 10 years...

I second the ERLL nerf, the thing was the best weapon on the field, not the worst reason to nerf something IMO.

Its not really the fact that they are nerfing it, it's the amount of the nerf. ALso the CERLL has never been the best weapon on the field. The gaus and CERPPC put it to shame.

[-Natural Selection-]

Looks like the "competitive players" snowballed ya azz.

Mob style inside 750m rush is the new crack. Means little to nothing to ppc/gauss in those fights.

[WM Wraith]

Aphoticus, on 08 August 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

By all the hate, it appears PGI nerfed the right things; otherwise, no one would care so much.

Perhaps those hating understand the drastic impact on play these types of changes have better than yourself? Perhaps they care more about the game than others to feed the need to comment.

I know I am feeding the troll here but comments of this quantity and magnitude deserve to be listened to since this group is fanatic enough to be the paying base that will either keep this game going or stop spending their cash here and go elsewhere signalling the demise of MWO. Free to play only goes so long without cash input from a player base.

[Falcore]

I agree with some of what people are saying about the clan er laser, is there any way to tweak it so that light and medium don't get the penalty ?

[Grey Death Storm]

POWR, on 08 August 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

No, I paid 60$ for a founder's package. I don't know why we are doing an exercise in currency conversion though. But since you got 8 mechs with 3 variants each, 8 of which are Heroes. That comes down to 10$ pr. mech + some amount of premium time, colors, patterns and so on. I have one variant of the Atlas which was 60$, and a month or so of premium time that came with it, and it's not even a full Hero mech.

A lot of things need serious nerfs. Mainly PGI should half the damage on all weapons, because they increased the firing speed so much.

Yes, there are a lot of losses to go round. If ELO works you should be getting around 50% of each. What do your stats tell you?

Quote

No, I paid 60$ for a founder's package. I don't know why we are doing an exercise in currency conversion though. But since you got 8 mechs with 3 variants each, 8 of which are Heroes. That comes down to 10$ pr. mech + some amount of premium time, colors, patterns and so on. I have one variant of the Atlas which was 60$, and a month or so of premium time that came with it, and it's not even a full Hero mech.

"I don't know why we are doing an exercise in currency conversion" because you were doing it in dollars and i was expressing in pounds so i went step further expressing in both currencies so no confusion.

you pretty much got same deal as id did when it came down to amount of premium time, colors, patterns and so on. However i went for Clan deals at the end of day it does not matter how you try to argue this deal you purchased phenix deal you got same deal as i had a hero mech with 2 additional variants at the end of the day I still paid more money on Clan than phenix deal. For a product paid for I expect my moneys worth. and no I do not want see it get nerfed any further because more user crying to devs for Nerfs.

As I stated originally you can now purchase Clan mechs for MC and CBills so if your so upset about Clans weapons why don't you buy one!! problem solved

Quote

A lot of things need serious nerfs. Mainly PGI should half the damage on all weapons, because they increased the firing speed so much.

I do not agree with you

Quote

Yes, there are a lot of losses to go round. If ELO works you should be getting around 50% of each. What do your stats tell you?

Actually No I spend most time losing around 10 matches and then spend next 10 matches winning i'm sorry does that sound like fun to you !! ELO system is up and down like a yoyo. Its beginning to piss me off being put in with weak teams that spend most their time crapping their pants first sighting of Laser fire/ LRM missiles or an Atlas coming towards them. It gets worse some weak teams spend most the time hiding behind a mountains or building doing nothing and getting killed, Also some teams got such large yellow streak they even leave their own team mates out in open battlefield as enemy close in for the kill. does that sound like fun to you!!! certainly does not to me

Edited by Death Storm, 08 August 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Bigbacon]

so the consensus after 39 pages seems to be.

PPC change: goes either way

ERLL change: pretty much an astounding "it sucks and is stupid" from all sides.

[Mystere]

saKhan Zellkai Furey, on 08 August 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

I'd like to inquire regarding Brawl Warri- err- Mechwarrior: Online's new dice rolling mechanic.

Will the upcoming patch be accompanied with dice or will we have to purchase them via MC?

It will be a 1 ounce gold dice for 3000 Canadian Dollars.

Ngamok, on 08 August 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

The problem is people who are good shots love the C ERLL because it's 11.25 damage and it's 2 tons lighter than the C ERPPC.

Nerf skill!!!

[Remarius]

FupDup, on 07 August 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Oh, and by the way, I know the secret to why the Clan ERLL seems so heat efficient. It's because of the beam duration increase. Lasers don't generate their heat upfront, they generate it over the length of their beam. This means that a longer beam means less upfront heat, meaning that your heatsinks can keep up easier.


The numbers:
CERLL pre-nerf: 8.5 heat / 1.5s = 5.66 heat per second (while firing)

CERLL post-nerf: 9.0 heat / 2.0s = 4.5 heat per second (while firing)


For reference:
ISERLL: 8.5 heat / 1.0s = 8.5 heat per second (while firing)

ISML: 4 heat / 1.0s = 4.0 heat per second (while firing)


You just made it more heat efficient, you %$#@%^# $^.

Now recalculate to reflect the two that are always carried together.....

[POWR]

Death Storm, on 08 August 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

"I don't know why we are doing an exercise in currency conversion" because you were doing it in dollars and i was expressing in pounds so i went step further expressing in both currencies so no confusion.

you pretty much go same deal as id did when it came down to amount of premium time, colors, patterns and so on, however i went for Clan deals at the end of day it does not matter how you try to argue this deal you said you purchased phenix deal you got same deal as i had a hero mech with 2 additional variants at the end of the day I still paid money for a product I expect my moneys worth and no I do not want see it get nerfed any further because more user crying to devs for Nerfs.

and as I stated originally you can now purchase Clan mechs for MC and CBills so if your so upset about Clans weapons why don't you buy one!! problem solved



I do not agree with you



Actually No I spend most time losing around 10 matches and then spend next 10 matches winning im sorry does that sound like fun to you !! ELO system is up and down like a yoyo. Actually beginning to piss me off being put in with weak teams that spend most their time crapping their pants first sighting of Laser fire/ LRM missiles or an Atlas coming towards them it gets worse some weak teams spend most time hiding behind a mountains or building doing nothing and getting killed, and some teams got such large yellow streak they even leave their own team mates out in open battlefield as enemy close in for the kill. Im sorry does that sound like fun to you!!!

How are you not getting your money's worth for your clan mechs? Far as I know they're not being removed from the game.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

This was idiotic - Clan ERLL was only a threat when boated as an entire team comp (sorry RHoD ;3) and the PPC nerf has killed long-range play forever. An entire lance with gauss rifles STILL isn't enough firepower to stop a brawl... and you've forever killed the Inner Sphere. The ONLY things IS had on Clan were fast lights and PPC meta, now the IS has only lights.

Absolute insanity.

[Ngamok]

POWR, on 08 August 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

But, have you tried the ghost heat?

No. I do have a Kit Fox variant with 2x C-ERLL and I know how much heat it puts out at the current 8.5 Heat. If they put in the Ghost heat to 12, with the increased heat value to 9, it will get hotter so much faster If I keep firing both at the same time. So either I switch it to chain fire only or I drop 1 ERLL and change my load out some. My Summoner-D is going to lose it's 2x CERLL 2x CERML 1x CUAC/5 and just be strictly 4x CERML and 1x CUAC/20 because the first build runs slightly hotter than the 2nd.

So I don't need to try it to know how it will affect it.

[Apnu]

The problem is the heat scale. Its not punishing enough in this game. The heat scale was always a joke in every MechWarrior title and that's the problem. Because the only consequence to over heating is a nice and brief gentile shutdown, MechWarrior inadvertently promotes a front-loaded, alpha-strike play style. Be it with long range sniping weapons, or a combination of AC20s and SRM6s.

Alpha-srikes are supposed to be a tactic of high risk, high reward, used in desperate situations. Players of MechWarrior, since the first version of the game decades ago, found the weak heat scale loop hole and exploited it.

This is one of the rare opportunities where the TT got it right with the heat scale. First off, the heat scale should be a measure of how you're over 100% cooling. Second, there should be gradual punishments as you go up the scale. Your speed and agility should be reduced, your targeting and HUD should be affected and you should risk ammo explosions (including GR explosions) at the top end, finally you should auto-shutdown at the very top.

Do that and players will have to balance their mechs and make different choices. We don't need ghost heat then and we don't need to tinker so much with weapons.

Take the 5 c-ERLL Dire Wolf (or the old 4 PPC Stalker). Sure they can take those weapons, let them use them and it will jack up their heat. Then those, already slow, beasts move more slowly and have targeting issues. Meaning its hard for them to hill hump if their movement is reduced by 50%. Want to alpha-strike 5 c-ERLLs? You can, but you'll be a slow bugger for a while afterward and get abused for it. Players will naturally adjust and bring more balanced builds to the battlefield. Or change up their tactics w/ less front loading pin-point damage and we'll come back to the happy days of snarling brawls.

Also, another idea, one kicked around in my unit, is to have a power output rating for the engines so they can only fire so many weapons at the same time. Bigger the engine, the more power to fire weapons. This brings engine weight and weapon weight into play as a balancing mechanic.

[Mystere]

POWR, on 08 August 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

If there's anything to learn it's that people who post on forums in rage are completely unreliable and will at best post emotional garbage.

Well, this is exactly how the nerfs came into being -- people vented highly emotional rage about the Clans. Funny how that works.

[Kraven Kor]

*sigh*

There are a ton of interesting ways to do this that don't turn a PPC into a ping-pong ball launcher due to the projectile speed.

And I don't even PPC, Bro.

[EvilCow]

A sensible approach to changes would require to change a single parameter by a small fraction and then examine the data.

Those exaggerated changes without real testing are a symptom of loss of confidence on the entire balance setup, they know the whole thing is a mess.

Not listening to community feedback since CB is now biting back, GG.

[JohnnyWayne]

POWR, on 08 August 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

Obviously a testserver gives no conclusive results as it's a f2p game with no advantages to playing on a testserver that is only around 1% of the time. There's also this thing about real development where you have virtualised models of the game and an internal test environment. But whatever, go ahead and ignore that stuff.

It is not suitable for mass tests. It is on the other hand for balance tests. Playerdriven developement is the best thing that can happen to any game. We se waht happens if it is not applied here.