692 replies to this topic

[Jeb]

El Bandito, on 07 August 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

IS mechs such as the Phract and the Victors are not the top of their respective weight class. Weight is not primary cause of effectiveness, per class. I'd even argue that a Banshee is much much better than an Atlas. Hardpoint numbers and locations + hitboxes are the most vital.

True, and IS have lots of lemon mechs regardless of their weights... but weight is something that should be considered...

As you point out though there are decent IS mechs that are not at the top of their weight classes that can compete with clan mechs due to good designs...

So let me change that...
I would like to see the actual break down in the mechs used on each team, and the team weight differences

What I was trying to point out though is that clan teams are at an advantage over random IS teams due to clan mechs being designed well, and their popular heavy and assaults mechs being on the high end of the weight scales.

Edited by Jeb, 07 August 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[Thorqemada]

NonCedo, on 07 August 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

...Now can we move on to the annoying mouse over sound in the mech lab...

Simply disable "Frontend Sound" in the Options Menu.

[KHETTI]

This is all rather amusing, PGI have basically proclaimed clan mechs as currently p2w.

[Orkhepaj]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Well, 62% of the players did fail to get the pathetic damage of 200...

I'll be trying again the 15th. Private matches and gimped cERLLs should make it much easier.

omg still this 200 dmg argument, so how many would have got over that 200 if they were in clan mechs? i bet nearly all^^
op clan needs to be balanced

[Johnny Reb]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Your belief that "bad" players only exist in IS Mechs is laughable. Yes, it's totally probable that 90% of the IS Mech pilots are "bad".

/facepalm

Um.. he was talking about solo players not IS players. Solo drops suck cause there is no real elo its just a mash up. Use that for clan v. IS will be crap. Prolly crap anyway you try and test it. Only way a IS team will prevail if they are both competent and coordinated against a less so clan team.

[Kyle Wright]

[color="#000000"]What Homeless Bill said.[/color]

http://www.reddit.co...n_clan_balance/

• 
  
  Let you guys in on a little sneak peak on my upcoming clan vs IS balancing pose. Clans won 90% of matches - 90%! - now hear me out.
  
• 
  
  Yes more vet players run clans but MM accounts for this, average diff in teams ELO went from just 40 to 90 in favour of the clan teams.
  
• 
  
  That is not very much, at most might account for a 60/40 win ratio. Yes a few other factor come into play but...
  
• 
  
  Clan vs IS right now? Not even close. More balance changes are absolute necessary. We will run the test this weekend.
  
• 
  
  But this does not mean we are leaning towards 12v10 but we need to do the research before we decide.
  
• 
  
  So let's keep the emotion down and gradually work through this together before CW battles start later this fall.
  
• 
  
  A more detailed post on this will come early next week at the latest, leading out to the 12v10 event.

Edited by Kyle Wright, 07 August 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[Orkhepaj]

Jeb, on 07 August 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

True, and IS have lots of lemon mechs regardless of their weights... but weight is something that should be considered...

As you point out though there are decent IS mechs that are not at the top of their weight classes that can compete with clan mechs due to good designs...

So let me change that...
I would like to see the actual break down in the mechs used on each team, and the team weight differences

What I was trying to point out though is that clan teams are at an advantage over random IS teams due to clan mechs being designed well, and their popular heavy and assaults mechs being on the high end of the weight scales.

not just weight but cost of equipment too

[Kyle Wright]

And those who say well IS wouldve had competent players that had more then 200 damage. Did you not consider that maybe no one lived long enough because clan weapons turned them into slag before they could go to town. It take a highly skilled team running META to compete with a all Clan Mech team. Even then the pressure gets to high and they still lose. As the vast majority of people dont run min/max builds how else are you suppose to compete?

[Wrenchfarm]

LOL.

90% of games ended with Clan victory.

Russ himself says in no uncertain terms "Yes, Clantech is WAY too strong against IS tech to be considered fair 12 vs 12"

Goldmen in this thread continue to delude themselves.

"AFF, AFF, AFF! Of course we won! We are the ELITE CLAN WARRIORS! We have the super human ability to summon $55 for a Madcat pack, it's part of our superior skill set! The Clan warriors are devoted elite veterans, while the IS is made up ENTIRELY of noobs! of course, that must be the reason!"

Utterly ignoring the fact that the Elo variance between Clan and IS was so negligible as to be meaningless.

"B-bu-but, surely it was because the IS devils were riding into battle on crapmechs! Locust and Quickdraws far as the eye can see! It could not be that our weapons hit twice as hard, from twice as far. That our XL engines let us tank far more damage. That our Endo and DHS upgrades are far more efficient. That our LRMs completely blind enemies and can be used as a perma-flashbang up close. It was because the IS players drove LOCUSTS!"

I can't stop laughing at you. It's too much.

Edited by Wrenchfarm, 07 August 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Orkhepaj, on 07 August 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

omg still this 200 dmg argument, so how many would have got over that 200 if they were in clan mechs? i bet nearly all^^
op clan needs to be balanced

26 Clan's failed to get 200 damage in my matches. Half as many. There were some pretty bad ones though...one match in particular sticks out. They came one or two at a time, and went from 12 to 0...it was kinda sad.


It's a real consideration. How else do you measure performance? If you have low damage, you did something stupid. That's pretty much a given. How else would you measure it?

[Johnny Reb]

I think a 10 v. 12 solo ppl test will prove nothing other than the clan dominate so maybe 8 v 12.

[Alex Warden]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Then...why did 38% of my IS allies manage to get 200 damage?

because maybe they had the time to do so, while the rest got stomped and murdered... there´s always "the lucky few" who get the chance to deal damage before getting rolled...

[Johnny Reb]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

26 Clan's failed to get 200 damage in my matches. Half as many. There were some pretty bad ones though...one match in particular sticks out. They came one or two at a time, and went from 12 to 0...it was kinda sad.


It's a real consideration. How else do you measure performance? If you have low damage, you did something stupid. That's pretty much a given. How else would you measure it?

Dumb players in clan mechs? However, scores in the other 100+ matches at the same time are not shown where clanners I imagine did alot more damage/kills overall..

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

26 Clan's failed to get 200 damage in my matches. Half as many. There were some pretty bad ones though...one match in particular sticks out. They came one or two at a time, and went from 12 to 0...it was kinda sad. It's a real consideration. How else do you measure performance? If you have low damage, you did something stupid. That's pretty much a given. How else would you measure it?

How else? I'll tell you how else.

1. Clan weapons have more range--CERLLaser even more stupidly so. That allows the Clanners to deal more damage from far away and has better chance to kill or maim any IS mechs before their own weapons can come into play.

2. Clan weapons are more DoT. That means like it or not, Clanners will alwyas have higher damage count in comparison with IS mechs. That 150 damage the IS pilot had put out before death might not seem much but given the pin-point attribute of IS weapons, it could have done some major component damage, while Clan damage is more evenly spread out. One must again mention overall the lesser range of IS weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 August 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Blarkon]

FFS did anyone read the fiction? The Clans are hundreds of years ahead technologically. Of course they are stronger than IS units. Up until Tukkayid, how many even battles were won by the IS? The only time the IS won was when it had overwhelming numbers.

It sounds as though what a lot of people want is just to play in the 3025 era.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

Um.. he was talking about solo players not IS players. Solo drops suck cause there is no real elo its just a mash up. Use that for clan v. IS will be crap. Prolly crap anyway you try and test it. Only way a IS team will prevail if they are both competent and coordinated against a less so clan team.

Actually, he's making his argument based from an IS Tech perspective. Since the only people he would have been grouped with during the testing period(s) are other IS pilots his statements are directed specifically to IS pilots. He then continues to say IS pilots consistently do less damage because they're "noob" completely disregarding every advantage Clan Tech has over IS Tech.

The original position he had is that Clan Tech is not Superior to IS Tech and the official tweet demolished that position. Now he can't argue Clan Tech isn't superior he falls to a strawman argument about something that can't be quantifiable. Oh wait, it can. It's called Elo. Their Elo/MM explanation and expected win margins contradict his "noobs" theory, but he still believes it.

Keep asking for more specific numbers though. I'm sure you'll find an outlier that you can cling to.

PGI released a statement that directly contradicts every point the "Clan Tech is not 'P2W'" crowd spout. Accept reality. Accept it and maybe some constructive discussions about stuff can happen.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 07 August 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[Wrenchfarm]

orin, on 07 August 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

FFS did anyone read the fiction? The Clans are hundreds of years ahead technologically. Of course they are stronger than IS units. Up until Tukkayid, how many even battles were won by the IS? The only time the IS won was when it had overwhelming numbers.

It sounds as though what a lot of people want is just to play in the 3025 era.

It sounds like a lot of people don't want to pay a $55 fun tax to a game they've already given plenty of money to to stay competitive. It sounds like people don't want to be punching bags for P2W tryhards. It sounds like maybe people want a fun and balanced game that doesn't have 9-1 match-ups every time an IS mech bumps into a Clanner.

[Voidcrafter]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 August 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

The stats on the IS vs Clan queues came in with clan wining 90% of the time. 90%.

So I thought I'd start a thread where everyone who said Clan mechs weren't more powerful could apologize, you know, to keep it all in one place. You were wrong, there's no shame in that, but you were wrong.

Apologize?
You mean:
"
Yo mr. Void and others that actually can see reason through their prejustices - you know I had a point and stuff, but before posting it I never gave it a thought about few points of things:
- Silly me - could've thought more about how currently there're plenty of trial IS mechs while NONE of the clans - which ends up IS having way more both trial and new players in a match!

- Clans don't have the variety of mechs to pick that IS are having - ending up with larger overall weight in the matches - just cause they don't have that many mechs to pick which as a result is giving them less variety of making mistakes and joining a game with a weak build!

- Almost all clan mechs(sorry mr. Direwolf - you're the turtle) are having almost equal speed - which ends up with clans being less spread and more tighten grouped in the maches - which kinda helps them focus fire way more(not intentional of course).
Overall all and all - I am just certain now the enviorment for testing IS vs Clans have too many variables to be stable enough to gain proper data and for me to jump hastly to conclusions so yea - I apologize for the 2139734521341978 thread of that kind where someone fail to see beyound his own point of view!
"

No worries Kurita broh - apologize accepted!

[Johnny Reb]

orin, on 07 August 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

FFS did anyone read the fiction? The Clans are hundreds of years ahead technologically. Of course they are stronger than IS units. Up until Tukkayid, how many even battles were won by the IS? The only time the IS won was when it had overwhelming numbers.

It sounds as though what a lot of people want is just to play in the 3025 era.

Well when it comes to a competitive shooter! Then yes, ppl don't like being the duck in the barrel. Problem between real time fps and cannon!

edit: If I wanted to be a duck in a barrel I would take my Urban Mech! Of wait....its not good enough to be a duck, then give my my frog/downgrade!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[Utilyan]

Obviously the 90% is from clans $$$superior piloting$$$..........L2P2W.



MWO PILOTING GUIDE.

1. put hand in pocket.
2. grab wallet.
3. take out credit card.
4. buy clan mech.



Thanks to murphy's law if you can't afford it, don't worry they will come out for cbills and then nerf the hell out of them.



Its good Russ was honest though. I don't think he wants to promote that miss match, does he? ::::cough trial-clan mechs::::