692 replies to this topic

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

How so? I don't play in solo now because of the terrible teammates I can get. Clan is still strong, however, I never mde any comment about it OP just it. I have no clan mechs however I do fine in my select IS mechs! Pug/solo is still not the way to see if 10v12 is good.
It's not the Tech, it's the people! Yes it is. a bunch of IS mechs v. clan mechs is disaster need coordination or just comms for the IS to have a chance.

And yet Elo says differently. PGI, who has all the relevant data, itself says differently.

But you're the one who is correct, right?

[Orkhepaj]

AUSwarrior24, on 07 August 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Interesting data, however something still stands.

100% of people in Clan 'Mechs know what they're doing.

Not everyone in an IS 'Mech does, and IS 'Mechs tend to be fairly... crap in their stock form. Fact is, player skill levels really aren't balanced here, nor are the base level of 'mechs.

rly? so thats why ive seen one dire wolf went solo to map border and waited everyone to die , then tried to shot the enemy over the cliff with short range weapons and even with them hitting the hill as he didnt went up enough ?
he died quickly doing like 40 dmg
yeah 100% my ass

[Voidcrafter]

Wrenchfarm, on 07 August 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Elo variance was negligible. The "Trial mechs held the IS back" argument is debunked.

How many players do you think were really running around in Locusts, Dragons, and XL Awesomes? Enough to skew the battles 90% of the way? Nah, I think that crazy winning streaks probably had more to do with the fact that Clanmechs are better in every way than any possible, unprovable, smokescreen of a weight discrepancy.

Walking in a death ball was all the Clanners had to do was win? The forums have been telling me all kinds of bizare multi-stage stratagems the IS has to employ to stand a chance against Clan teams. Meanwhile all the Clans have to do is bulldoze in a group in roughly the same direction? I don't think that's an argument you want to make.

Delusion is a scary thing.

Speaking of dellusions - I've seen a lot of "CLANS OP!! NERFZZ!!" stuff around the forum, yet very few rational explanations why?
And this topic aint helping in that manner
Why do YOU think clans are OP?
Better LRMs? SRMs? Autocannons? When you destroy a Side Torso of a clan mech it's not half past dead?
My points are quite valid if you come to think about it, even put that way, even if you're somewhat crazy enough to convince me that YOU actually TRUST the MM and the stats gained from clan VS is data.

Can add another few unrational reasons to my statements:
DWFs are really, really, REALLY unfriendly toward the current playstyle and thus wreck through things having near to none problems at all - not to mention the meta's exsistence give them the right to do so even more effective.
Overall clan pilots are better pilots - cause that are people who played the game this much and liked it and are this much in the universe that gave that much money to get those mechs - as I did.

Oooh riiiight - LAZORZ...
Well if you come to think about it - if there wasn't enough reasons for the people to go on boating mindness you were barely going to notice that - I mean... 12 CERMLs? 4/5/6 CERLLs?
I personally never ever do that - though I go face to face with those builds every night I get home(yea I am a dedicated brawler) - still I have no issue with those you know why?
I friggin torso twist and the beam duration is a enough drawback for me - though even if it needs some "adjustments" - here we can agree on - I don't care tbh - I use em as a support weapon and that's what they are for me.
So aside of the meta boyz and sheet - what's your reason to think clans are sooooooooooo OP that IS pilots can't handle it?
Buff the IS? Nerf the clans?

Edit: I made a Summoner "brawling" build yesterday that included 4 CERLL actually - but I never stood further away than 300m from any target so... I doubt that it counts

Edited by Voidcrafter, 07 August 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[El Bandito]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

Buff the IS? Nerf the clans?

One or both must come to pass.

Just take an example of IS and Clan workhorse weapon--the medium laser. Though they both costs 1 ton, at 500 meters--a very reasonable engagement distance--Clan ERMlas can do near full damage while IS Mlas damage is utterly negligible at such distance. With such range advantage, surely CERMlas has heavy drawbacks, no?
Actually no. Aside from the mere 0.3 second extra burn duration, it deals more DPS (even out DPSing the IS medium laser in equal duration), and has better HPS.

I say **** that. Increase CERMLas heat from 5.5 to 6.8, at least. It needs significant amount of HPS to offset it's range and DPS superiority. It is a bloody ER weapon, it should not have better DPS to HPS ratio than a regular IS laser.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 August 2014 - 11:36 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

what's your reason to think clans are sooooooooooo OP that IS pilots can't handle it?
Buff the IS? Nerf the clans?

90% win-rate for the Clans. PGI's entire tweet. Here it is again in case you missed it.

[headbasher]

I would prefer a buff to IS , buffing is ALWAYS better.


but i do like the idea of clan engine eff going down with loss of side torso.

[Johnny Reb]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

And yet Elo says differently. PGI, who has all the relevant data, itself says differently.

But you're the one who is correct, right?

Heh, all I am saying I don't drop in solo cause it is a total dice roll on who shows up with you. At least in group the bad teams are players who are competent.

edit: I also know if my team mates are shat if its in a team with new players.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:38 PM.

[Utilyan]

I think they really should have did trial-clan stock mechs on the launch. That way it could have been just a bit inclusive of the clan-invasion hype. And that could have built up a better attitude towards the game. Now its like I gotta tell the noob.....yes you suck 90% certainly.


Maybe one can count on very mature gamer to remain a punching bag. Especially if he is entertained himself with the notion of being a punching bag. But I don't think they gonna provide the numbers. stock-trial-clan mechs I think is the way to go. Even then its prob not "enough" by tryhard standards, but least you might reinforce a slightly more positive attitude to the loyal punching bags.

[Johnny Reb]

I have no(er..Know) idea about elo but I see its really not working when I dropped solo!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

headbasher, on 07 August 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

I would prefer a buff to IS , buffing is ALWAYS better.

Buffing is definitely always better.

If something sucks, why would you make everything else as sucky? Things may be more "balanced", but everything sucks...

That's what nerfing does.

[Wrenchfarm]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

Speaking of dellusions - I've seen a lot of "CLANS OP!! NERFZZ!!" stuff around the forum, yet very few rational explanations why?
And this topic aint helping in that manner
Why do YOU think clans are OP?
Better LRMs? SRMs? Autocannons? When you destroy a Side Torso of a clan mech it's not half past dead?
My points are quite valid if you come to think about it, even put that way, even if you're somewhat crazy enough to convince me that YOU actually TRUST the MM and the stats gained from clan VS is data.

Can add another few unrational reasons to my statements:
DWFs are really, really, REALLY unfriendly toward the current playstyle and thus wreck through things having near to none problems at all - not to mention the meta's exsistence give them the right to do so even more effective.
Overall clan pilots are better pilots - cause that are people who played the game this much and liked it and are this much in the universe that gave that much money to get those mechs - as I did.

Oooh riiiight - LAZORZ...
Well if you come to think about it - if there wasn't enough reasons for the people to go on boating mindness you were barely going to notice that - I mean... 12 CERMLs? 4/5/6 CERLLs?
I personally never ever do that - though I go face to face with those builds every night I get home(yea I am a dedicated brawler) - still I have no issue with those you know why?
I friggin torso twist and the beam duration is a enough drawback for me - though even if it needs some "adjustments" - here we can agree on - I don't care tbh - I use em as a support weapon and that's what they are for me.
So aside of the meta boyz and sheet - what's your reason to think clans are sooooooooooo OP that IS pilots can't handle it?
Buff the IS? Nerf the clans?

Oh I don't know, maybe it's the fact that most Clan weapons have far more range and damage for a trivial heat cost? A cost easily offset by their far superior tonnage efficiency and ability to boat far more DHS thanks to Endo and DHS taking fewer slots.

Maybe it's because when you destroy a Clan side torso, all you do is strip him of some of his weapons while an IS mech goes down like a sack of rocks?

Maybe it's because Clan weapons weight substantially less, take fewer slots, and frequently enjoy more hardpoints and better hardpoint variety than IS mechs? Maybe because several clan mechs can make Alpha builds that will core out Mediums and Lights in one salvo and cripple anything heavier?

Maybe it's the LRMs that will indefinitely shake a players screen and make fighting back all but impossible. Annoying when clans were introduced, DEVESTATING now that Clans can use them has point blank stun grenades.

But hey, those problems are not even the real issue. The fact that Clan mechs have chopped our already ridiculously short TTK now to nano-seconds and have made the game substantially less fun and more prone to random OHKOs just makes the game worse. The real insult is that these superior machines are locked behind a pay wall.

It's P2W at it's finest. Buy your Gold Ammo, insert extra quarters for a bigger health bar, bribe your way to victory.

The balance issues are frustrating and ruin any chance for fun. It's the P2W aspect that makes the game fundamentally broken and insulting.

Nerf the clans to a reasonable level, or make Clan tech available for all.

Edited by Wrenchfarm, 07 August 2014 - 11:42 PM.

[Voidcrafter]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

90% win-rate for the Clans. PGI's entire tweet. Here it is again in case you missed it.
...

So you're saying what?
That I must trust the MM? The games with trial IS mechs against the clans? Some random stats? Did you made the effort to read what I've pointed out before posting this again?
They've put some reallly crappy enviorment and oooh - SURPRISE!!! - the results are... crappy
And my games W/L ratio is about 1 where my K/D ratio is about 2.5 - what does that means? Nerf the all the other players so I can win?
And I personaly don't care about winning tbh - other things bring me satisfaction - so bring it on 10v12 if you wish.

In my opinion before starting doing such boolsheet tests they should've put both sides on "equal" terms - giving the clans at least some other lighter mechs than the heaviest in each chasis.
Also giving them the equal number of trial mechs the IS have with the same not-quite-optimized builds.
And so on...

Devs said something based on underthought things they did, broken MM, unoptimized world-times for test playing games to test it.
Devs which, probably summed up, play the game way less than I do, than you all do.
Can't really get why I am feeling the only one who doesn't see point in this

[Johnny Reb]

As a lrm mech I say take the shake away. I don't need it. Why have any shake?

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Did somebody say Clans winning 90%?

Let's do this! Uphill fights are the most satisfying fights. You have nothing to lose, everything to gain.


Also, anybody who thinks nerfing and buffing are not the same thing is a crazy loon. A nerf can be interpreted as everything else being buffed, and a buff can be interpreted as everything else being nerfed. It's all relative.

[Jeb]

headbasher, on 07 August 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

I would prefer a buff to IS , buffing is ALWAYS better.


but i do like the idea of clan engine eff going down with loss of side torso.

then you have to let clan mechs swap out their engines for non XL engines or they are too easy to kill. Having fixed engines and the huge downside of the XL engine would make some clan mechs usless... The TW with it's giant ST Ears for example? Imagine if the Catapult had it's ears switched to ST instead of arms... who would run XL engines in them at that point? No one cause they would be simple to kill... that is what would happen to the a lot of clan mechs, they would be trash...

[Johnny Reb]

Jeb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

then you have to let clan mechs swap out their engines for non XL engines or they are too easy to kill. Having fixed engines and the huge downside of the XL engine would make some clan mechs usless... The TW with it's giant ST Ears for example? Imagine if the Catapult had it's ears switched to ST instead of arms... who would run XL engines in them at that point? No one cause they would be simple to kill... that is what would happen to the a lot of clan mechs, they would be trash...

Wow a defense using the timber wolf. Bad idea yes the clans wit stuck engines need that, but using the defacto best mech as an example, wow!

[headbasher]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

So you're saying what?
That I must trust the MM? The games with trial IS mechs against the clans? Some random stats? Did you made the effort to read what I've pointed out before posting this again?
They've put some reallly crappy enviorment and oooh - SURPRISE!!! - the results are... crappy
And my games W/L ratio is about 1 where my K/D ratio is about 2.5 - what does that means? Nerf the all the other players so I can win?
And I personaly don't care about winning tbh - other things bring me satisfaction - so bring it on 10v12 if you wish.

In my opinion before starting doing such boolsheet tests they should've put both sides on "equal" terms - giving the clans at least some other lighter mechs than the heaviest in each chasis.
Also giving them the equal number of trial mechs the IS have with the same not-quite-optimized builds.
And so on...

Devs said something based on underthought things they did, broken MM, unoptimized world-times for test playing games to test it.
Devs which, probably summed up, play the game way less than I do, than you all do.
Can't really get why I am feeling the only one who doesn't see point in this

90% man 90%, there is no argument. Its 90% , there are no factors , excuses , MM , skill , whatever you can think of that can make up that 90%

[Johnny Reb]

Well this weekend its going to be 12 v10. I imagine clan 85% at the min.

[headbasher]

Jeb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

then you have to let clan mechs swap out their engines for non XL engines or they are too easy to kill. Having fixed engines and the huge downside of the XL engine would make some clan mechs usless... The TW with it's giant ST Ears for example? Imagine if the Catapult had it's ears switched to ST instead of arms... who would run XL engines in them at that point? No one cause they would be simple to kill... that is what would happen to the a lot of clan mechs, they would be trash...

Dude im not talking dropping eff down to 1% or anything. I think your overreacting a bit and with 90% some sh** needs to be done.

[Jeb]

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

Wow a defense using the timber wolf. Bad idea yes the clans wit stuck engines need that, but using the defacto best mech as an example, wow!

You really think the Timberwolf would be so great if destroying ONE of it's ears (ST) killed it?
I used it as an example because it is considered the best by so many, and how that one engine change would be so drastic.

Edited by Jeb, 07 August 2014 - 11:57 PM.