692 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Actually, he's making his argument based from an IS Tech perspective. Since the only people he would have been grouped with during the testing period(s) are other IS pilots his statements are directed specifically to IS pilots. He then continues to say IS pilots consistently do less damage because they're "noob" completely disregarding every advantage Clan Tech has over IS Tech.

The original position he had is that Clan Tech is not Superior to IS Tech and the official tweet demolished that position. Now he can't argue Clan Tech isn't superior he falls to a strawman argument about something that can't be quantifiable. Oh wait, it can. It's called Elo. Their Elo/MM explanation and expected win margins contradict his "noobs" theory, but he still believes it.

Keep asking for more specific numbers though. I'm sure you'll find an outlier that you can cling to.

PGI released a statement that directly contradicts every point the "Clan Tech is not 'P2W'" crowd spout. Accept reality. Accept it and maybe some constructive discussions about stuff can happen.

Well, I can't say it is Pay to Win, but I've never used the "OMGWTFBBW P2W HAXORZ" that is the TimberWolf.

The Nova and Cute Fox are all I've used, neither are amazing. Nerfing the Cute Fox any further than it's too wide self would make it nearly worthless.


But, sure, all Clans are P2W and super OP. Have it your way.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Well, I can't say it is Pay to Win, but I've never used the "OMGWTFBBW P2W HAXORZ" that is the TimberWolf.

The Nova and Cute Fox are all I've used, neither are amazing. Nerfing the Cute Fox any further than it's too wide self would make it nearly worthless.


But, sure, all Clans are P2W and super OP. Have it your way.

Don't make blanket statements on my behalf, kthxbye

[Wrenchfarm]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Apologize?
You mean:
"
Yo mr. Void and others that actually can see reason through their prejustices - you know I had a point and stuff, but before posting it I never gave it a thought about few points of things:
- Silly me - could've thought more about how currently there're plenty of trial IS mechs while NONE of the clans - which ends up IS having way more both trial and new players in a match!

- Clans don't have the variety of mechs to pick that IS are having - ending up with larger overall weight in the matches - just cause they don't have that many mechs to pick which as a result is giving them less variety of making mistakes and joining a game with a weak build!

- Almost all clan mechs(sorry mr. Direwolf - you're the turtle) are having almost equal speed - which ends up with clans being less spread and more tighten grouped in the maches - which kinda helps them focus fire way more(not intentional of course).
Overall all and all - I am just certain now the enviorment for testing IS vs Clans have too many variables to be stable enough to gain proper data and for me to jump hastly to conclusions so yea - I apologize for the 2139734521341978 thread of that kind where someone fail to see beyound his own point of view!
"

No worries Kurita broh - apologize accepted!

Elo variance was negligible. The "Trial mechs held the IS back" argument is debunked.

How many players do you think were really running around in Locusts, Dragons, and XL Awesomes? Enough to skew the battles 90% of the way? Nah, I think that crazy winning streaks probably had more to do with the fact that Clanmechs are better in every way than any possible, unprovable, smokescreen of a weight discrepancy.

Walking in a death ball was all the Clanners had to do was win? The forums have been telling me all kinds of bizare multi-stage stratagems the IS has to employ to stand a chance against Clan teams. Meanwhile all the Clans have to do is bulldoze in a group in roughly the same direction? I don't think that's an argument you want to make.

Delusion is a scary thing.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Voidcrafter, on 07 August 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

Apologize?
You mean:
"
Yo mr. Void and others that actually can see reason through their prejustices - you know I had a point and stuff, but before posting it I never gave it a thought about few points of things:
- Silly me - could've thought more about how currently there're plenty of trial IS mechs while NONE of the clans - which ends up IS having way more both trial and new players in a match!

- Clans don't have the variety of mechs to pick that IS are having - ending up with larger overall weight in the matches - just cause they don't have that many mechs to pick which as a result is giving them less variety of making mistakes and joining a game with a weak build!

- Almost all clan mechs(sorry mr. Direwolf - you're the turtle) are having almost equal speed - which ends up with clans being less spread and more tighten grouped in the maches - which kinda helps them focus fire way more(not intentional of course).
Overall all and all - I am just certain now the enviorment for testing IS vs Clans have too many variables to be stable enough to gain proper data and for me to jump hastly to conclusions so yea - I apologize for the 2139734521341978 thread of that kind where someone fail to see beyound his own point of view!
"

No worries Kurita broh - apologize accepted!

Wow... Like, seriously, wow... Pop that bubble, man... Try and entertain the notion that you're not infallible.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 07 August 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Actually, he's making his argument based from an IS Tech perspective. Since the only people he would have been grouped with during the testing period(s) are other IS pilots his statements are directed specifically to IS pilots. He then continues to say IS pilots consistently do less damage because they're "noob" completely disregarding every advantage Clan Tech has over IS Tech.

The original position he had is that Clan Tech is not Superior to IS Tech and the official tweet demolished that position. Now he can't argue Clan Tech isn't superior he falls to a strawman argument about something that can't be quantifiable. Oh wait, it can. It's called Elo. Their Elo/MM explanation and expected win margins contradict his "noobs" theory, but he still believes it.

Keep asking for more specific numbers though. I'm sure you'll find an outlier that you can cling to.

PGI released a statement that directly contradicts every point the "Clan Tech is not 'P2W'" crowd spout. Accept reality. Accept it and maybe some constructive discussions about stuff can happen.

Thanks for saying what I don't mean. I think I can do that better. However, you do not represent me in any way!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[headbasher]

Yikes 90 freaking percent . I knew it was imbalanced but wow ...just wow.


If your trying to to say clans are balanced please continue to do so so we can have good lulz


Ill give him credit for posting the numbers though , but damn how could you release something like this?

Edited by headbasher, 07 August 2014 - 11:15 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Don't make blanket statements on my behalf, kthxbye

You like to be my spokesman why not?

Its Johnny Reb approved via that guy!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Orkhepaj]

John1352, on 07 August 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Question: Why do players get less than 200 damage?
Answer: They were killed before they were able to do 200 damage.

Why: Clans have superior weapons, heatsinks, engines, endo steel, ferro fibrous and AMS.

cause clan is only available for $ and making them plain better increases sell numbers
just like in every other pay to win games

Edited by Orkhepaj, 07 August 2014 - 11:15 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

Thanks for saying what I don't mean. I think I can do that better. However, you do not represent me in any way!

Johnny Reb, on 07 August 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

You like to be my spokesman why not?

Its Johnny Reb approved via that guy!

No, you were pointing out a perceived inaccuracy in my comment. Turns out, in the context of the actual points being made, there was no inaccuracy. You're the one who felt the need to "correct" me without even understanding who is saying what.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 07 August 2014 - 11:16 PM.

[Jeb]

There were 12 - 1 stomps before clan mechs came out... Stomps are not limited to clan teams...


Now all the people thinking 12 vs 10 or even 12 vs 8 are the way to go....

That means that EVERY new clan mech has to be designed to be better then any other IS mech in it's weight class...
That means that EVERY new IS mech can not be designed to compete against any clan mech in it's weight class 1 vs 1...
That means that 1 vs 1 a clan mech is going to win most of the time...

If you don't follow those rules for all future mechs, but put in 12 vs 10 or 12 vs 8, you then give an unfair advantage to the IS teams...


Is that the game you want? Just think about how hard it is to get pugs to stick together as it is... imagine if the game is intentionally designed with clan mechs being better, and a lance of 4 IS mechs won't stay with the main group...
If the even 1/2 the clan members stick together, that is 4 or 5 mechs... if those 4-5 mechs run into 4-5 IS mechs, the clan mechs will win in the that type balance....

The 12-10 or 12-8 may work to balance group drops where working together as a team is more of a given, but in the solo queue, your never going to balance it properly that way...

Imagine the screams on the forums when the IS get owned 1 vs 1 so badly they have no chance to win.... it won't matter if the "team" is balanced at that point... Look at how people think the Timberwolf is so overpowered... it's doesn't matter that both teams have them right now so the teams are kept somewhat balanced that way... people are upset that it's better then their mech...

Edited by Jeb, 07 August 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[Impyrium]

Interesting data, however something still stands.

100% of people in Clan 'Mechs know what they're doing.

Not everyone in an IS 'Mech does, and IS 'Mechs tend to be fairly... crap in their stock form. Fact is, player skill levels really aren't balanced here, nor are the base level of 'mechs.

[Utilyan]

I think its mental advantage clans got of a differ sort. Just from the cockpit its pretty blue not sht green with pretty blue missiles....again IS is sht monochrome. You can feel bad just from looks alone.



When Urbanmech comes out, it better be roomy with pimped out expensive waxed wood panels, a standard huey the hamster and gorgeous hud colors.

[Johnny Reb]

A solo/pug 10 clan v 12 IS is still going to be a slaughter in the clan favor. I might try a few drops but with MM how it is, can't see IS having any chance.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Here it is, people. We have now witnessed the shift of focus heading towards "Elo is no longer valid" now that we have a clear indication that Clan Tech gives you a 90% chance to win.

It's not the Tech, it's the people!

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 07 August 2014 - 11:21 PM.

[Jman5]

Wrenchfarm, on 07 August 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Elo variance was negligible. The "Trial mechs held the IS back" argument is debunked.

How many players do you think were really running around in Locusts, Dragons, and XL Awesomes? Enough to skew the battles 90% of the way? Nah, I think that crazy winning streaks probably had more to do with the fact that Clanmechs are better in every way than any possible, unprovable, smokescreen of a weight discrepancy.

Walking in a death ball was all the Clanners had to do was win? The forums have been telling me all kinds of bizare multi-stage stratagems the IS has to employ to stand a chance against Clan teams. Meanwhile all the Clans have to do is bulldoze in a group in roughly the same direction? I don't think that's an argument you want to make.

Delusion is a scary thing.

In my 6 matches against Clans with 72 IS mech, there were
0 locusts
0 awesome's
1 potential trial mech (or he could have just owned the champion variant)
1 dragon

http://imgur.com/a/YppiF#0

[El Bandito]

orin, on 07 August 2014 - 10:57 PM, said:

FFS did anyone read the fiction? The Clans are hundreds of years ahead technologically. Of course they are stronger than IS units. Up until Tukkayid, how many even battles were won by the IS? The only time the IS won was when it had overwhelming numbers.

It sounds as though what a lot of people want is just to play in the 3025 era.

This is MP only arena shooter. Show me another such game where one side has blatant advantage.

Just take an example of IS and Clan workhorse weapon--the medium laser. Though they both costs 1 ton and 1 slot, at 500 meters--a very reasonable engagement distance--Clan ERMlas can do near full damage while IS Mlas damage is utterly negligible at such distance. With such advantage, surely CERMlas have heavy drawbacks, right? Actually no. Aside from the mere 0.3 second extra burn duration, it deals more DPS, and has better HPS.

I say **** that. Increase CERMLas heat from 5.5 to 6.8, at least.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 August 2014 - 05:09 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

AUSwarrior24, on 07 August 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Interesting data, however something still stands.

100% of people in Clan 'Mechs know what they're doing.

Not everyone in an IS 'Mech does, and IS 'Mechs tend to be fairly... crap in their stock form. Fact is, player skill levels really aren't balanced here, nor are the base level of 'mechs.

Woah, slow down there partner!

I've seen plenty of crappy Clan pilots! The ability to pony up $55 isn't a marker of skill, or even dedication, it just means someone spent money. In fact, I know a lot of sub-par pilots who bought Clan packages specifically so they could enjoy better mechs and do better on the field without really improving themselves.

That aside, the Elo numbers have been released alongside the devastating 90% win rate. Elo variance was negligible. That means the teams weren't some tragic mis-match of SUPER DEDICATED ELITE PLAYERS vs day-one trial mech users. The skill gap was near non-existent - the only thing to account for the massive one-sided blowout was the gear the Clans got to use.

It's time to start back peddling and admit that maaaaybe Clantech is too strong.

[Johnny Reb]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

Here it is, people. We have now witnessed the shift of focus heading towards "Elo is no longer valid" now that we have a clear indication that Clan Tech gives you a 90% chance to win.

It's not the Tech, it's the people!

How so? I don't play in solo now because of the terrible teammates I can get. Clan is still strong, however, I never mde any comment about it OP just it. I have no clan mechs however I do fine in my select IS mechs! Pug/solo is still not the way to see if 10v12 is good.
It's not the Tech, it's the people! Yes it is. a bunch of IS mechs v. clan mechs is disaster need coordination or just comms for the IS to have a chance.

edit; my typing and editing is getting worse, sorry.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 07 August 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[headbasher]

There really isnt any quick fixes for this a PROPER solution is MONTHS away . If they have any sense they will drastically speed up cbill clan releases so to put the player base on even footing at least, otherwise its going to be a train wreck. Well its already a train wreck so whats worse than a train wreck? an ammo factory explosion?

[Wrenchfarm]

Jman5, on 07 August 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

In my 6 matches against Clans with 72 IS mech, there were
0 locusts
0 awesome's
1 potential trial mech (or he could have just owned the champion variant)
1 dragon

http://imgur.com/a/YppiF#0

Oh my! Stop with all the truth, you'll bruise their egos.

In fact, not only did you not drop with many crapmechs, I'm noticing quite a few meta-compliant top-teir mechs on the IS side. One match has 3 Heavy Metals, 1 Banshee, 2 Ilyas, and an Ember - all mechs that are considered top of the line or strong for their weight/role.

I'm seeing Founder tags, Phoenix tags. Guess they aren't noobs.

I'm seeing multiple ECM mechs a team. They're trying hard to leverage the advantages they have.

I'm not seeing these legions of Locust Trial mechs that supposedly undermined the IS. What a shame.