692 replies to this topic

[BourbonFaucet]

Wolfways, on 07 August 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Lady pillows?

That was the joke. Those silly pillows.

Edited by Techorse, 07 August 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[Scratx]

John1352, on 07 August 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Question: Why do players get less than 200 damage?
Answer: They were killed before they were able to do 200 damage.

Why: Clans have superior weapons, heatsinks, engines, endo steel, ferro fibrous and AMS.

I can accept #1, #2 and to a small degree #5.

I call bullshit on #3 and #4, most clan mechs don't have both and some have neither or have ferro instead of endo.

[Mcgral18]

John1352, on 07 August 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Question: Why do players get less than 200 damage?
Answer: They were killed before they were able to do 200 damage.

Why: Clans have superior weapons, heatsinks, engines, endo steel, ferro fibrous and AMS.

Then...why did 38% of my IS allies manage to get 200 damage?

Bads will bad. That's why they got less than 200 damage.


We had a round where the Clans were absolutely terrible. We had 2 discoes and 4 who ramboed off...but 6 IS managed to take out the 12 Clans...That's what happens when things Rambo.

They die horribly.


The 15th will be telling if we get Comms and competent players.


Besides, I want all of this Clan info out. what% of IS and Clan mechs got less than 100 and 200 damage. How many Lolcusts were about? I saw at least 1, and quite a few Commandos. And stock mechs....god those things were terrible.

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 August 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[Livewyr]

They need to do numbers balancing... that is how FASA did it. .

Instead, I expect to have one of two results from PGI:
1: fighting as IS mechs in clan skins.
Or
2: any clan mech shutting down for firing more than one weapon at a time.

PGI methods for balancing border on kindergarten.

[Aresye]

The results are in, and they're practically useless because 1 side has trial mechs often piloted by newer players that don't own anything else.

[slide]

Um where did these numbers come from? Link? Please

Edited by slide, 07 August 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its pretty straight forward why Clans are beating the living crap out of IS.

For any IS mech to have the survivability of the clanners, we have to use Standard engines.
This means IS mechs setup to survive are slower, easier targets, and hitreg is better on slower targets.

Clans out-range, out-gun, out-maneuver, and generally out-live any IS mech of equal weight.

Each clan weight class is effectively 1 step up from IS in that same weight class, on top of having the high top speed of any equivalent in that weight bracket.

Clan Lights have the firepower of IS mediums or higher.
Clan Mediums have the firepower of IS Heavies or higher.
Clan Heavies have the firepower of IS Assaults.
Clan Assaults have the firepower of 1-1/2 or 2 IS Assaults.

In 12-12 matches of clans vs IS, the advantage is so far on the side of the clanners that it is not even funny.

3/3/3/3 fixed things up for the IS matches, but it can't possibly account for the clan firepower, as I mentioned above, each Clan mech is 1 weight class more powerful than IS equivalent and then some.

Personal skill doesn't make much difference when its that lopsided.

Edited by Mister D, 07 August 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[Suko]

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Can I try again with competent teammates? Still managed 2 victories, and 5 losses.

Out of 84 IS pilots, 52 failed to deal 200 damage. Only 7 (C) mechs from all 7 matches.

Out of 84 Clan pilots, only 26 failed to deal 200 damage. This is from my 7 matches alone. You mind getting those details from all of them?


More testing is coming on the 15th, with gimped cERLLs.

Why do you people keep bringing up damage? Did you ever pay attention to the damage done by your team in a stomp situation over the last 2 years? It's always this way. The stomp team never has high damage. How could they? If they're getting stomped, even the BEST players would be lucky to do well. I'm a pretty competent player, but if my team is down by 6 mechs, I'm hosed. No amount of "skill" is going to allow me to rack up 600 dmg against 4 mechs blasting me simultaneously.

Seriously, you people are coming up with the most ludicrous excuses to justify clans not being OP. Get over it and accept the truth already.

[Gas Guzzler]

The results are worth nothing because I have been stuck with satellite internet and haven't been able to play!



Jk, in all seriousness, it is a lot easier to use BAD IS buiilds, then Clan builds. Most of the time a random set of Clan weapons can be pretty effective. I still stand by that I have no problem with Clan mechs when I am in IS builds that are considered "good". Not full meta, just "good".

[John1352]

Scratx, on 07 August 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

I can accept #1, #2 and to a small degree #5.

I call bullshit on #3 and #4, most clan mechs don't have both and some have neither or have ferro instead of endo.

On the ones that don't have ferro or endo, you get more slots, allowing you to fill the whole thing with clan nano double heatsinks, allowing you to do more sustained damage.

[EgoSlayer]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 August 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

The stats on the IS vs Clan queues came in with clan wining 90% of the time. 90%.

So I thought I'd start a thread where everyone who said Clan mechs weren't more powerful could apologize, you know, to keep it all in one place. You were wrong, there's no shame in that, but you were wrong.

Source? (seriously - where did they post it?)

Oh, and typical PGI - the upcoming planned PPC/ERPPC/C-ERPPC and C-ERLL nerfs invalidates most, if not all, of the testing done so far and the planned test this weekend.

EDIT: looks like the patch will be in effect for the test this weekend. I suspect that private match outcomes in 12v12 would be different than PUG 12vs12s just because people will be out to prove their builds rather than the fun/troll/lol builds that may have been going on in the PUG testing. Guess we'll never know since it will be 10v12 with the nerfs in place. Should be an interesting flip of the numbers if they get the necessary participation.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 07 August 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[Sug]

If it were always Clan vs IS and the IS people started changing their builds and tactics to take advantage of the Clan's drawbacks then yeah, Clan/IS would probably be even.

You can't have matches with people in trial mechs and **** builds trying to out snipe the clans or charge a DW head on and think the matches will be 50/50

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

https://twitter.com/...589495349657601

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

For those of you who didn't clink any links:

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Can I try again with competent teammates? Still managed 2 victories, and 5 losses.

Out of 84 IS pilots, 52 failed to deal 200 damage. Only 7 (C) mechs from all 7 matches.

Out of 84 Clan pilots, only 26 failed to deal 200 damage. This is from my 7 matches alone. You mind getting those details from all of them?


More testing is coming on the 15th, with gimped cERLLs.

Why don't you look at it from a broader perspective instead of viewing it through the narrow scope of "pilot skill".

Why would so many IS Mechs fail to do much damage?

• Maybe the IS Mechs weren't able to respond with their own effective damage because the Clan Tech allows for 60%-75% greater effective range.
  
• Maybe the IS Mechs weren't able to get close because they're getting one of their Side Torso's getting blown off or getting Legged at 600+ meters.
  
• Maybe their aim is being thrown off due to the constant impulse shake from CAC's, no-min CLRMS.

Mcgral18, on 07 August 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Then...why did 38% of my IS allies manage to get 200 damage?

Bads will bad. That's why they got less than 200 damage.


but 6 IS managed to take out the 12 Clans..

Let's take one rare occurrence and turn it into a broad generalization that it should be the norm.

Let's ignore Elo and MM "balancing". 90% of the matches played are full of Trial Mechs and people getting their Cadet Bonus.

That castle you built seems to be sitting on sand.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 07 August 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[Mystere]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 07 August 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...589495349657601

Jman5, on 07 August 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Sorry but this was debunked by PGI.

They accounted for Elo differentials and it was still insanely out of wack. Going by skill it should have been 60/40 worst case scenario. The fact that it was 90/10 means there is imbalance.

Where? Or are these ghost numbers.

Edited by Mystere, 07 August 2014 - 09:45 PM.

[verybad]

Mystere, on 07 August 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Source please. Or are these ghost numbers.

Read the quotes right above you...
.

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 07 August 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

For those of you who didn't clink any links:





Why don't you look at it from a broader perspective instead of viewing it through the narrow scope of "pilot skill".

Why would so many IS Mechs fail to do much damage?

• Maybe the IS Mechs weren't able to respond with their own effective damage because the Clan Tech allows for 60%-75% greater effective range.
  
• Maybe the IS Mechs weren't able to get close because they're getting one of their Side Torso's getting blown off or getting Legged at 600+ meters.
  
• Maybe their aim is being thrown off due to the constant impulse shake from CAC's, no-min CLRMS.

Let's take one rare occurrence and turn it into a broad generalization that it should be the norm.

Let's ignore Elo and MM "balancing". 90% of the matches played are full of Trial Mechs and people getting their Cadet Bonus.

That castle you built seems to be sitting on sand.

[Jman5]

Mystere, on 07 August 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Where? Or are these ghost numbers.

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

scroll down

[Jeb]

Pre Clans, how many IS mechs were considered subpar? Lots but people still use them as they can still be fun to play... so right off the bat, you have a mix of good and bad IS mechs regardless of weights...


Now... the only way your going to see IS win 50% of the time is if the clan mechs are worse then the average IS mechs...


There are only 2 clan mechs in each weight class... with the 100 ton Assualt and 75 ton Heavy being the ones people consider good of those mechs to pick from.

For example a drop with 3x Catapults vs 3x Timberwolves... Favor goes to the Timberwolves just in tonnage (your 30 tons heavier on the Clan side...) (factor in those Cats probably are heavy LRM boats, and they are considered support mechs, while the Timberwolves probably have a mix of weapons making them front line mechs. (you can get other Heavies mixed in those drops for IS, but I had to pick a good example.)

Next add in 3x Direwolves... vs an Atlas, an Awsome, and a Battlemaster... you have 300 tons vs 265 tons... again Advantage goes to the Clans...

If we are going to get more clan mechs later... maybe they will get a 65 ton Heavy that is more on par with a Catapult though..
Maybe we will get more 80 and 85 ton Assaults that are on par with Awsomes and Battlemasters...

Right now the Clans have 8 mechs to pick from, with 3 variants each.
Right now the IS have 29 mechs to pick from, with anywhere from 3 to 7 variants...


The current IS vs Clan matches are going to favor the Clans...

If we are going to try to balance the Clan mechs using these types of tests, we need better quality control on the IS mechs so that both teams are dropping with equal mechs being used, not this random batch of IS mechs that can be at huge weight disadvantages right from the start...


Put Timberwolves up against Cataphracts or other IS heavies considered to be decent IS mechs...
Put Direwolves up against Atlases and other top end IS Assaults...

See why these tests dont' show the big picture here?


I have never said the clans don't need some tweaking... they do... Clan laser ranges I feel is a large issue due to IS having nothing to counter them with... but these tests are not the way to figure that out...

Edited by Jeb, 07 August 2014 - 09:52 PM.

[Mystere]

Jman5, on 07 August 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

scroll down

Why does everything have to be on twitter first?!!!

[El Bandito]

Jeb, on 07 August 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

-snip

Your method is certainly more effective and I am sure in the test of August 15th, the IS will bring overall better mechs to face the Clans, since the matches will be private. However, should the Clans stomp IS again...PGI will be more than justified to call in the Nerfinator.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 August 2014 - 09:57 PM.