80 replies to this topic

[xe N on]

It has been said countless times, there are hundreds of threads ...

but still it should not fade into oblivion:

A formerly well designed, low weight assault class was unnecessarily nerfed into extinction.

Almost all low weight light, medium and heavy class battlemechs are currently underrepresented because of several inherent factors.

However, there used to be an exception: the Victor series. While being one of the lightest assaults it was frequently used because of it's agility and speed.

Now the Victors are just a shadow of their former strength. Nobody use a 80 ton battlemech that's agility is equal to a 20 ton heavier Atlas - especially after the recent jump jet nerfs.

Nowadays, Victors are rarely seen on the battlefield. They join the ranks of their fellow sufferers Locust, Cicada, Blackjack, Dragon and Awesome. Diversity got killed ... again.

This need to be undone - not inly for Victors, but for all lightweight!

Edited by xe N on, 07 August 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[El Bandito]

DS is still here. P2W FTW.

[Veranova]

Yeah the Victor is dead now. Agility made up for its XL engine, but now you're just dead.
JJ changes need to be shifted to halfway between before and after, the nerf went too far.

[TexAce]

Turn speed really needs to be adjusted again, this is just nonsense what they did with the Victor.

And I'm saying this purely as someone who loved to brawl with my 3 vics!

You already made JJs useless, no need for the agility nerfs on the vic anymore

[Brizna]

I don't know about the Victor since I never played them myself but Cicadas and Blackjacks are fine.

Edited by Brizna, 07 August 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[Training Instructor]

Yeah, haven't been seeing that many Victors lately. Kind of feel bad for people who bought them to play as a real mech, and not just a jumpsniper.

[xe N on]

Brizna, on 07 August 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

I don't know about the Victor since I never played them myself but Cicadas and Blackjacks are fine.

I don't see many of them. They are not fine.

[Noth]

xe N on, on 07 August 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

I don't see many of them. They are not fine.

You don't see many because there are better options that are easier to play. The nature of gamers these days is to flock to only the best and easier to play things in games. That however doesn't mean something is not fine, gamers are just really polarizing.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Victors (especially Dragon Slayers) are still highly prevalent at top tiers of play, and make appearances in RHoD on a regular basis.

I don't know why people are saying they're as maneuverable as an Atlas... they're still the most maneuverable IS assault mech even with the nerf

[Flapdrol]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 07 August 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

Victors (especially Dragon Slayers) are still highly prevalent at top tiers of play, and make appearances in RHoD on a regular basis.

Because clan tech isn't allowed there.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Flapdrol, on 07 August 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

Because clan tech isn't allowed there.

If Victors were as underpowered as the OP suggests, they'd be replaced on an almost constant basis by Atlases, Stalkers, or OTHER IS Assaults.

...But that's not happening.

[xe N on]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 07 August 2014 - 02:27 AM, said:

If Victors were as underpowered as the OP suggests, they'd be replaced on an almost constant basis by Atlases, Stalkers, or OTHER IS Assaults.

...But that's not happening.

I don't play premade, but apperenly premades still are focusing poptarting meta.

For anything else then poptarting with the Dragon Slayer (I play a meta DS by my self) the Victor is just worse then any other assault beside Awesome.

If you don't want to poptart (and poptarting is effectively dead in my ELO range), Stalker, Atlas and Battlemaster are the much better choice then Victor.

One reason is that the Victor needs to go XL, because of low weight, because of low agility below engine rating of 325 and because of only few hardpoints.

Edited by xe N on, 07 August 2014 - 02:41 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Im a PUG and the Victor is still very,very tough.
Its still a great mech.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

xe N on, on 07 August 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

I don't play premade, but apperenly premades still are focusing poptarting meta.

For anything else then poptarting with the Dragon Slayer (I play a meta DS by my self) the Victor is just worse then any other assault beside Awesome.

If you don't want to poptart (and poptarting is effectively dead in my ELO range), Stalker, Atlas and Battlemaster are the much better choice then Victor.

Stalkers can still hill hump well, most other IS assaults suffer from Barn Door Syndrome (essentially the Awesome) or poor weapon hardpoints - the Atlas and Battlemaster have some of the most distinct hitboxes in the game, making it trivially easy to place your shots. At least the D-DC has ECM, making it a classic pick.

Most IS Assaults (excluding LRM boats) all attempt the same thing - a massive frontloaded alpha, be it boated large lasers, ballistics and PPCs, or boated SRMs and lasers. This is limited by the poor top speed/maneuverability/jump capability characteristic of almost all assaults - except the Victor.

POST-nerf the Victor still outperforms all IS assault mechs as far as maneuverability, speed, turning, etc. Sure, you might be able to stuff a huge XL engine in a Pretty Baby or something, but it'll be garbage... In fact, the only IS assaults that can carry a good loadout and run in the 80 kph range are the PB and the Victors, and everyone can agree that Victor > Awesome

[RangerGee412]

I still use mine as brawlers and I love them all.

[CDLord HHGD]

El Bandito, on 07 August 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

DS is still here. P2W FTW.

Except you being wrong about P2W (as is everyone else who can't help but try to get that little barb in). Use some self control man... I haven't pulled my DS out in MONTHS.

[Ultimax]

One of the many nerfs that went too far and sucked the fun out of the chassis for anything that isn't poptarting.

[Malleus011]

I still use my VTR-9B with an AC/20 as a close-in brawler, just like pre-nerf. It's just a lot harder now.

It gets half the kills and dies far more often than my BLR-1D, which is also set up for close range. Both run XL engines.

I prefer the Victor, but it's much, much harder to win fights in it. The JJ's are junk now (heavy junk), the turn and twist rates are terrible ... the BLR is just better.

Yes, I have a DS set up for poptarting. I never drive it anymore because it's not fun. I still try to win fights in the 9B, though - because that's what a Victor *should* do.

[Mott]

El Bandito, on 07 August 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

DS is still here. P2W FTW.

Only at the highest ELO & competitive tiers.

Where I PUG, mid-high ELO, VTRs are dead.

I saw exactly one VTR (of any variant) in 13 drops last night, and 2 the night before. At 80 tons... they're simply too easily focused down now that their agility has been nullified. You're actually better off in a meta Jaeger, as at least you can pack in more firepower, or a CTF-3D because you still remain highly mobile and lethal.

[Jeb]

I see them now and then...
Just because you don't see any that doesn't make them dead...


Also keep in mind that with clans being out and new, your gonna see a lot of people running those Assaults... and the non clan Assault players have 35 non Victor Assaults to pick from, and under normal match making, you shouldn't see more then 6 or so Assaults per match... assume at least 2-4 of those are clan / Atlas D-DC and your odds of being in a match with a victor are pretty low...



Also, I run my Arrow at least 2-3 times a night and am pulling off 400-600 dmg on some rounds... just cause you don't see a lot of BJs does not mean they suck.

Edited by Jeb, 07 August 2014 - 07:54 AM.